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Stronghold: Game Help & Strategy Discussions
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Stronghold 2 » Forums » Stronghold: Game Help & Strategy Discussions » Number Crunching
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Topic Subject:Number Crunching
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Merepatra
HG Alumnus
posted 11-24-01 15:33 EST (US)         
I've started doing some playing around with "number crunching" in Stronghold. I thought that maybe some other people might also be working on, or be interested in, this kind of thing and if so they could also post anything they find out, or are curious about, in this thread.

The first thing I have done is working out the speed at which the different people in the game travel. I will be putting that into the next post. Doing this has led me into starting work on production rates of farms and industries, hopefully I will have something to post about them before long.

This thread is getting so long that it has become a major task for people to find what has been discussed previously so below is a list of some of the main points covered, either as posts in this thread or as articles that have come from these posts. These only cover some of the main points or numbers, there are many interesting discussions not covered by them so anyone with the time would do well to read the whole thread.

Production cycles and walker speeds - Living by numbers article

Fear Factor details and effects - The Good, the Bad and the Mechanics article

Popularity and Taxing - Dr Popularity

Combat related hitpoints etc - Post 258. This post is a compendium of what has been discovered about combat strengths etc.

[This message has been edited by Merepatra (edited 05-29-2002 @ 00:11 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
Lord Edy
Archer
posted 11-20-05 11:45 EST (US)     276 / 294       
Hi there, hello everyone! (again)
A VERY IMPORTANT THING TO KNOW is that, when a game runs PREFECTLY, on speed 40, 1 game-month is 25-30 seconds.
This was very usful to know when I was makeing "Dover part-2, clif hanger", as I had given the player 3 game-months (1:30 minutes) to cede a stronghold! lol

Scinece you cannot double post, I will put my note here.

I'm going back to the old subject of good/bad things. I don't know if someone has proven me wrong, but with troop bonus, the defence of that troop is in/decreased. If you think about it, an arrow will still go through your skull, weather the archer wanted to fire it or not. But if you receved a sevier arm injery, your recovery will depend on your determination to survive and will to keep on fighting.
The same with seige equipment, if your engineers had a high moral, they would build better quality catapaults, sheilds, etc.

P.S. Great work from both the "old team", Metepatra, Wraith, Brave Sir Robin, deruset, The Ztolk, Jayhawk and Blacksheep; and from the "new team", Zygoman, Bismath, NAT, NeKoeMa, Zebas, Broken Clock2 and Ash Plissken; and anyone else!!!

[This message has been edited by Lord Edy (edited 11-20-2005 @ 04:09 PM).]

Darkslave Master
Archer
posted 01-10-06 11:13 EST (US)     277 / 294       
Hey i've been testing on free build map and found this

1: it's impossible to totally deforestate a map, alwais 1 tree stays, the wc'ers simply don't cut it, it will multiply always to and after that, sometimes dies.

2: you can't put yourself in a situation that you can't work out, if you delete EVERY building exept the keep your popularity drops to 0, although still 4 "loyal" peasants will stay, namatter what, the first woodcutter hut is free when no building is there to be demolished or you just have 0-2 wood in your stockpile.
after that the woodcutter will eventually cut enough wood to recreate the garnery and a farm, your popularity rises and so does you population

I've not tested when, if you have 4 peasant, no builings and popularity 0, to send in horseman that (HAHAHA) can't kill the king but can kill the peasants, if they will return eventually.

just bear in mind that you leave one archer on the keep to shoot of the horses so peasants can return without emediate slaughter.

ok i've tested this to and when the knight kills your remaining peasants and you kill him the following happens: your popularity shoots up to 100 and you will get your peasants back!

Oh yeah, one question, how do you quote?

DS_M

[This message has been edited by Darkslave Master (edited 01-14-2006 @ 07:27 AM).]

ericgolf
Earl
posted 07-18-06 17:32 EST (US)     278 / 294       
*Tanners only take a cow from farms with a full complement of three cows* [EDIT - *MAYBE* . See edit below]

Further to the work of Merepatra (I think) on the behaviour of Tanners and where best to locate them in relation to the armoury and cattle farms: -

While playing recently I had time to observe the Tanners. Yes they use one cow to produce three suits. However, they head for the nearest farm WITH THREE COWS (not always the nearest farm). AND if, when they get there, they find there are less than three cows they seem to return to their tannery empty handed before heading off to the nearest farm with three cows.…..

This means that, if you have competing tanners, then sighting them closer to the armoury and further from the farms can reduce efficiency. They can make several longer trips to a farm and return empty handed before eventually getting a cow.

I have found that I seem to get optimum efficiency by situating my tanners next to a farm. The trip to the farm is short and any cow shortage is discovered quickly and another farm can be tried.

How does this fit with other player’s experience?

Eric the Golf



EDIT - I am now not so sure that it is quite as simple as "Tanners only take a cow from farms with a full complement of three cows". Tanners do go back empty handed from farms but I am no longer sure why. I need to do more observing.

[This message has been edited by ericgolf (edited 01-08-2010 @ 09:54 AM).]

Penguinzboy
Archer
posted 07-22-06 19:42 EST (US)     279 / 294       
whats number chrunching imnew at this
Wraith
Archer
posted 07-27-06 22:15 EST (US)     280 / 294       
A long time ago, a few of us figured out that the game operates by some level of math. By that, there is an optimal level of how to do things. We just started jotting them down in this thread. LOTS of neat info... Take a look through.

Guard your walls, I am coming.
My Recommendations
EvilerCheese
Archer
posted 07-08-07 01:15 EST (US)     281 / 294       
Well I didn't see this on the conglomerated military post so I guess I'll post it, it takes about 50 bolts or 200 arrows to kill a Lord, also not every arrow/bolt seems to hit, but bolts seem to hit more often than arrows.

The patiently impatient one.
sirkarl
Archer
posted 01-08-10 09:45 EST (US)     282 / 294       
A very good topic!

But I have a question:

"Dr. Popularity" - Scripted Events -

Marriage
+8 per month for 3 month


I can`t see this, for example not in "Calanais"

Only in Stronghold v1.0? Not in Stronghold v1.2 (Deluxe)?

Similar Black Monks in Cathedrale?
Lord Michael I
Knight
posted 01-09-10 17:03 EST (US)     283 / 294       
Marriage is a scripted event, so you'll have to make a map and script it in for it to work. Some of the maps you can download here, as well as some in the campaign have the marriage script included too..

My Johari window.
Do you have what it takes to hold off Saladins' forces? Find out here...
"I think most people are trying to forget Aqua... Most people I know still haven't recovered from Barbie Girl" - QuickDraw
sirkarl
Archer
posted 01-10-10 05:30 EST (US)     284 / 294       
Thank you, Lord Michael I, for the answer.

Please, you can tell me, which campaign....mission(s)?
Lord Michael I
Knight
posted 01-10-10 12:41 EST (US)     285 / 294       
Man, you got me there..

I just went through the Stronghold Walkthroughs and I can't seem to find a mission with a scripted marriage in it.

However, I'm sure there are a lot of user-made maps with this event in it

My Johari window.
Do you have what it takes to hold off Saladins' forces? Find out here...
"I think most people are trying to forget Aqua... Most people I know still haven't recovered from Barbie Girl" - QuickDraw
Sir Wulf
Snoogles
posted 01-11-10 07:13 EST (US)     286 / 294       
From memory, Smokey Bacon was the one

Reddendum hoc vobis
Translate this yourself
-----------------------
Motto of the French Navy: "To the water, it is time!"
Lord Michael I
Knight
posted 01-11-10 15:43 EST (US)     287 / 294       
There's another scripted marriage in mission 10 - The Snake Hunt Begins. I just finished replaying that mission and I got married to some lovely lady that went by the name of Catherine Twospades. What an awesome name..

My Johari window.
Do you have what it takes to hold off Saladins' forces? Find out here...
"I think most people are trying to forget Aqua... Most people I know still haven't recovered from Barbie Girl" - QuickDraw
sirkarl
Archer
posted 01-12-10 05:36 EST (US)     288 / 294       
Yes, it is not a problem to build a chapel or church or cathedral and to see a marriage.

My question was (and is):
Never I can see more popularity in this time -

+8 per month for three months ????

A "problem" of SH1 v1.2 DeLuxe???
peter2008
Knight
posted 01-14-10 12:41 EST (US)     289 / 294       
Hi sirkarl,

the problem is not the different versions of Stronghold but that there are two kinds of marriages offered in Stronghold. What you observe, e.g. in "Calanais", is a "common people's marriage" (let's call it CPM) announced in a religious building, instead of the seldom scripting event "Marriage" (SEM).

a) If you place a religious building along the game and click on it now and then you will be provided with either the announcement of an ongoing marriage of some common people, CPM, or the notice "No marriage this month." These news are similar to the things people talk while working or waiting at the campfire, meant just for your funny entertainment.
As all the other personal stuff, the CPM has no effect on popularity. In fact, there are so many CPMs happening regularly that almost any mission could be won with that many common people in honeymoon feelings - too easy, isn't it?.

b) As Lord Michael I has already said, the SEM is a special event that has to be scripted in the map editor. This event can be ordered, like the other ones, to happen at a certain time. Only the Lord and his Lady come into question for a SEM. Now the best: the placing of any religious building is not neccessary for triggering a SEM. A nicely decorated chamber of the keep seems to be good enough for the two turtle-doves. Looks to me that it is here where your confusion origins. Only along with this event goes the popularity effect of +8 among the people lasting for 3 months.

c) Test: You may play a Freebuild map.
After the rudimentary installations, press F1 which allows you to trigger any event from the map editor, at once (works only in the Freebuild type of map). This marriage, namely of the Lord and his Lady will bring with it the popularity effect.
Later on, you may place, to start with, a chapel. After the first hovel is placed, female characters appear on the map. So, common people's marriages (CPM) can happen.

d) Happy marrying.

Of Honour without Fame,
Of Greatness without Splendour,
Of Dignity without Pay
- Walter Benjamin
sirkarl
Archer
posted 01-15-10 06:35 EST (US)     290 / 294       
Hi Peter2008,

many thanks for your helpful answer. The difference between
CPM and SEM was unknown for me.

...a)This can I see.

...b) "be good enough for the two turtle-doves." Very nice!

...c) Yes I do, but later.

...d) ....I`ll ask my wife...
Korsfarer Mogens
Archer
posted 05-04-12 11:32 EST (US)     291 / 294       
EDIT - I am now not so sure that it is quite as simple as "Tanners only take a cow from farms with a full complement of three cows". Tanners do go back empty handed from farms but I am no longer sure why. I need to do more observing.
I've been studying a lot of cows (from 1 dairy farm) and tanners lately.

When a tanner leaves the tannery to get a cow, he has already chosen the cow he's going to get. If a second (or third, etc) tanner takes that cow before the first tanner gets to it, the first tanner will return to his (or someone elses*) tannery and wait for another available cow. If - on the other hand - the cow has become unavailable because the dairy farmer is milking it, the tanner will just wait until the milking has finished, and then bring the cow to the tannery.

There seem to be a fixed order from which the tanners pick the cows, but it could also be the neerest cow they prefer. But it seems like the cow west of the barn is choice no. one, the cow east of the barn is choice no. two, and the cow south of the barn is choice no. three. So, if cow no. one and two are unavailable when he leaves the tannery, the tanner will go for cow no. three.

More on the interaction between a dairy farm and upto 20 tanners (including *) here:
Cooking up a cows tale!
Valuable info for when and where you cannot trade weapons (leather armour).
Tamerlane1
Archer
posted 02-14-14 07:06 EST (US)     292 / 294       
Is it possible to get a grid of the map onscreen to calculate trips lengths etc?
Timballisto
Archer
posted 02-14-14 22:42 EST (US)     293 / 294       
This could help you...

http://stronghold.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forum/display.cgi?action=ct&f=4,449,,all

You could potentially accomplish the same thing by laying down wall, bulldozing it, and seeing how much stone or wood you recovered from it.

-DOOMBRINGER-
"DOOMBRINGER, make a parking space IMMEDIATELY!"
"DOOMBRINGER declares it to be SO!"
"DOOMBRINGER, I command you to lay siege to THE ISS!"
Ircher
Archer
posted 01-31-15 18:03 EST (US)     294 / 294       
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this data may be outdated as of Stronghold v1.2/1.3:

Here's the new gatehouse damage values:

Spearmen - 4 Quicker
Pikemen - 6 Quicker
Macemen - 6 Slower
Swordsmen - 10 Slower
Knight - 10 Slower
Monk - 4 Quickest
Tunneller - 6 Quicker
Catapult - 80 Very Slow
Trebuchet - 330 Slowest
Battering Ram - 80 Slower
Boiling Oil - 0
Mongerel - 5 per rock
Ballista - 0
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