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Stronghold 2 » Forums » Stronghold and Crusader: The Map Room » Ain Ebel Warfare
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Topic Subject:Ain Ebel Warfare
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Heroesflorian
Archer
posted 06-10-09 17:20 EST (US)         
Greetings everyone,

this is my first scenario map, Ain Ebel Warfare!
I have done most of the designing so far. The story is also almost completed, maybe a few minor changes or adds will be done.

Different steps in landscaping:
Step 1
Step 2
Step 3
Step 4

Up-to-date-minimaps:
(north side on top)
ainebelwarfacev102.png
(west side on top)
ainebelwarfacetv102.png


Now I am struggling to get some working script into the game. My goal is to create a mix of siege and eco mission, making you feel as within the 3rd Crusade, trying to siege a well-prepared (fictional) castle called "Ain Ebel" without many starting troops but some open space for raising up your economy.
The problem is that you face almost no resources on the map, your enemy has sent reinforcements to kill you off and your time is restricted.

Here some pics showing parts of the map:
A mysterious shrine"Allah'S Eye" - A holy fountain
Your campA part of the desert

[!UPDATE: More pictures!]
The southern and northern farms around Ain Ebel


And the guy with the soup :-)... (mentioned in the full story)


Here is a picture I just found, showing the whole map. This picture is not completely up-to-date, but it still shows most of the up-to-date map.




More pictures will be add soon.


Here some parts of the story:

19. July 1190
Our scouts have reported a “strongly defended stronghold” on top of some cliffs near the Jordan along with more fortifications at the ford across the river. Our hopes of refreshing our supplies of water quickly from the river did not realize, because we can’t go near to the water without being seen by their soldiers on the big lookout-tower – even our scouts are lucky not to have been seen! On our side of the river we have discovered some fascinating, but very strange buildings, maybe shrines for their demonic gods. We have erected a small camp not far away from Ain Ebel, but out of sight due to several rocky cliffs.

28. July 1190, Notes on the castle:
I heard from a secret pass way anywhere in the southern side of the cliffs (this was very expensive to find out...), but unfortunately I was not able to localize it, maybe it only existed a hundred years ago or is out of some myth like the name of the “Allah’s Eye Fountain” in the southwest, which is only special because of the masses of lions there.

7. August 1190
We have prayed for the hostile soldiers not to notice us! We’re hiding wherever we can. Our men are suffering from the heat – a battle with the well prepared troops of Shamai would be our end now!

---


I would be glad if there is anyone out here who could playtest the map. And this is my first going-to-be-submitted scenario map, so I am looking forward to every tips for improving it.


Heroesflorian

Edit#1: For some unknown reason, the thumbnails of the "different steps in landscaping" don't show up. But clicking them, you see the pictures correctly.
Edit#2: I'm from Germany, so at me it's not 17:51 but 23:51 - don't wonder when I do not respond immediately =D
Edit#3: Still searching for another playtester, maybe someone with some experience in SHC.

Ever expect the unexpected!
Life is a row of mistakes, but avoiding them will not make life shorter!
Every kind of biological life is egoistical, but the human race is the only known one that successfully manages to destroy the living room of its own descendants.

Some of my better creations: The Ancient Knight, Ain Ebel Warfare, United AIV, Dark Skies over Al'Shareed

[This message has been edited by Heroesflorian (edited 06-19-2009 @ 03:15 PM).]

AuthorReplies:
DesertMonarch
Archer
posted 06-10-09 17:26 EST (US)     1 / 29       
I really like the little camp.
shame I dont have crusader
Heroesflorian
Archer
posted 06-10-09 17:37 EST (US)     2 / 29       
I'm glad about the fast first response and that you like the camp =D
Warlord Designs and some others have inspired me a lot, thanks to them at this point!


Heroes

Ever expect the unexpected!
Life is a row of mistakes, but avoiding them will not make life shorter!
Every kind of biological life is egoistical, but the human race is the only known one that successfully manages to destroy the living room of its own descendants.

Some of my better creations: The Ancient Knight, Ain Ebel Warfare, United AIV, Dark Skies over Al'Shareed
WL_D Arthus
Master Illuminator
posted 06-10-09 19:36 EST (US)     3 / 29       
Appreciate the mention, you're a fine designer yourself by the looks of things

Looks great!
The Dragonheart
Archer
posted 06-10-09 22:39 EST (US)     4 / 29       
Wow, I can't wait for this to come out. Looks very well designed. Keep designing!
Heroesflorian
Archer
posted 06-11-09 07:29 EST (US)     5 / 29       
Thank you guys!!!

If I find someone to playtest it, it won't take too long to its release.

And, does anyone know if it is possible to add events like getting the enemies' castle (called cede, or?) to a map after designing?


Heroesflorian

Ever expect the unexpected!
Life is a row of mistakes, but avoiding them will not make life shorter!
Every kind of biological life is egoistical, but the human race is the only known one that successfully manages to destroy the living room of its own descendants.

Some of my better creations: The Ancient Knight, Ain Ebel Warfare, United AIV, Dark Skies over Al'Shareed

[This message has been edited by Heroesflorian (edited 06-12-2009 @ 05:49 PM).]

von Schmidt
Archer
posted 06-11-09 10:42 EST (US)     6 / 29       
Looks great Heroesflorian! You sure have come a long way since your 'River Landscape' and 'Mountain Landscape' I'll be willing to playtest for you, if you don't mind having an inexperienced player.

IT GOES IT GOES IT GOES IT GOES GUILLOTINE

YAH
Heroesflorian
Archer
posted 06-11-09 16:44 EST (US)     7 / 29       
Hmm... in these skirmish maps I did not always find the right balance between look and playability and did not work that long. But I have updated them a while ago, now they don't look that disastrous anymore =D

To the "inexperienced player" - I don't think you are that inexperienced, are you? Glad to have you as playtester, von Schmidt!
I'll send you the files right away.


Florian

Ever expect the unexpected!
Life is a row of mistakes, but avoiding them will not make life shorter!
Every kind of biological life is egoistical, but the human race is the only known one that successfully manages to destroy the living room of its own descendants.

Some of my better creations: The Ancient Knight, Ain Ebel Warfare, United AIV, Dark Skies over Al'Shareed
ericgolf
Earl
posted 06-12-09 13:59 EST (US)     8 / 29       
Hi Heroesflorian, I tried to fix the non-appearance of the inline thumbnail graphics in your top post for your first four linked graphics. However I was unable to work out their location (they must be buried somewhere at imageshack). The hyperlinks work though.


It looks like this will be a fine Crusader map
Heroesflorian
Archer
posted 06-12-09 14:34 EST (US)     9 / 29       
Hi ericgolf,

thanks for trying to fix this bug and for your comment on the map!

I know, basically wrong topic, but: Where can I look up the 10000-stone-trick?

Too bad that I didn't find out how to make smileys here yet...

I have added the final touches in design today, except some corpses from a battle in the story, who are not neccessary anymore because of the starting date is a bit later...

I'll add some more pictures today if I can. (Done)

Assassins' demonic dance (yeah. not really THAT demonical looking^^ but it's the idea that counts here)


The demonical sacrifice


The summoned demon ["a mighty, axe-swinging creature attacked them(...)"]


More unholy rituals


Fighting off Sak-Ka'ra priests


Different (more or less) spooky places


Northwest corner ingame...


...and in the editor (yes, there is a killing pit *happy about little spoiler*)


Moreover, I have spent a bit time on the story (added about one and a half page), which is now about four papes long and completely completed.

"Only" playtesting, troubleshooting and perhaps changes to the script to be finished.


Heroes

Edit: I have added two more minimaps in the first post!

Ever expect the unexpected!
Life is a row of mistakes, but avoiding them will not make life shorter!
Every kind of biological life is egoistical, but the human race is the only known one that successfully manages to destroy the living room of its own descendants.

Some of my better creations: The Ancient Knight, Ain Ebel Warfare, United AIV, Dark Skies over Al'Shareed

[This message has been edited by Heroesflorian (edited 06-12-2009 @ 06:00 PM).]

Lord_of_Hell
HG News Director
posted 06-13-09 03:43 EST (US)     10 / 29       
Wow, this is going to be a great map
Will try it as soon as it's finished!

__________
------// Cherub \\------
---\\ Lord_of_Hell //---
-\\ ----------- //-
-\\__∴__//-
\\_//
ericgolf
Earl
posted 06-13-09 05:30 EST (US)     11 / 29       
Hey! A pyramid! I like pyramids


(As your first 6 thumnail pics were not showing up I substituted hyperlinks instead to make it look tidier)
Heroesflorian
Archer
posted 06-13-09 06:35 EST (US)     12 / 29       
Yes pyramids are something great! Some (long) time ago I tried to make a whole map consisting of a huge pyramid along with lots of other temple systems, because i find the idea of a real working pyramid with corridors, traps, etc. very fascinating...
But I didn't finish this project - maybe you could deal with that idea as you like pyramids?
As far as I can see, you have some experiences with Aztec pyramids - which look pretty cool in "La Muerte Negra"!

But back to the topic... thx for putting in the links - simple, but great^^

I'm glad that you like my map =D

Maybe you would like to playtest my map as well? (having more than one opinion at the scenario's difficulty may be helpful)


Heroesflorian

Ever expect the unexpected!
Life is a row of mistakes, but avoiding them will not make life shorter!
Every kind of biological life is egoistical, but the human race is the only known one that successfully manages to destroy the living room of its own descendants.

Some of my better creations: The Ancient Knight, Ain Ebel Warfare, United AIV, Dark Skies over Al'Shareed
ericgolf
Earl
posted 06-13-09 08:40 EST (US)     13 / 29       
Feel free to send it over (However I am not a real expert in Crusader. I mainly have played SH1, so my opinion would not be based on much experience)
Heroesflorian
Archer
posted 06-13-09 08:55 EST (US)     14 / 29       
Ok, I'll send you the files. (Done)
However I am not a real expert in Crusader. I mainly have played SH1, so my opinion would not be based on much experience
- I think that many players should be able to play my map without getting frustrated, so having it tested only by experts would not be that well in my opinion.

Moreover, English is not my mother tongue and writing 4 and more pages of English text may cause me to make some major mistakes (apart from the logical issues =D).

So my story should probably also be "tested".

Here two more pictures:

Kh’mar Shamai’s son challenging your patrolling knights


Some capitulators get "punished" (for their timid behavior) by your enemies



Heroes

Edit: Some more pictures added

Edit: I got a problem - the yellow lord is being mentioned as demon in the story and attacks you during the game. But the main task is to kill the orange lord. However, when you kill the yellow lord (much easier^^), the win-condition "kill enemy lord" is fulfilled. Does anyone know, how I could fix this bug? (Using "kill all hostile units" instead will probably not work, because this will make the scenario much harder.) I've got a "Plan B", but it is rather a trick with some other win-conditions than a real solution to the original problem.

Ever expect the unexpected!
Life is a row of mistakes, but avoiding them will not make life shorter!
Every kind of biological life is egoistical, but the human race is the only known one that successfully manages to destroy the living room of its own descendants.

Some of my better creations: The Ancient Knight, Ain Ebel Warfare, United AIV, Dark Skies over Al'Shareed

[This message has been edited by Heroesflorian (edited 06-13-2009 @ 04:46 PM).]

von Schmidt
Archer
posted 06-15-09 11:29 EST (US)     15 / 29       
I started your map up to take a look at the terrain and to maybe play a little, but I didn't really know what to do at first. Maybe a few starter instructions would be nice.

I would also be willing to edit your story for you if you wanted me to English is the only language I speak, so I'm pretty good at it.

And to fix your problem: Try changing the win condition to 'Kill Enemy Lord: Rat'. Hopefully that should work out.

IT GOES IT GOES IT GOES IT GOES GUILLOTINE

YAH
Heroesflorian
Archer
posted 06-15-09 15:01 EST (US)     16 / 29       
To the problem: In Crusader you can't choose what Lord shall be killed.

To the starter instructions: The first few minutes are quite a lot of action, that's right...
But I do not exactly know, what instructions I should give.

I mean, it should be quite clear (if not, correct me, please!) that an approaching hostile lord is the first thing to deal with and that retreating your troops from an area where mangonels shoot at is probably a next good step. The other things (I won't mention them here to keep some surprise to the other players)which happen very early are meant to be unexpected (except those engineers...) to provide some challenge. Knowing everything before would maybe be quite boring, I think.

Moreover, you have to raise up some economy and besiege the castle, which should be halfway obvious after reading (or at least skimming) the story.

To have sth cleared: When you say "instructions", I think of sth that everyone should read carefully before trying the mission the first time.
What I am currently working on and what I would prefer to add are some (two pages atm) "hints" to be read if you need some help or want to have extra information before trying to beat the mission.

If you thought of hints, good, if not, please try to give me an example for what you thought of.

To look up my progress with the hints, the "plan b" and some scripting, you may check your emails, I just sent you the files.

Playing the current version by myself, I have won during the last month now^^



Overview Picture:


Link to Picture of Minimap



Heroes

Edit: final minimap and overview picture added.

Ever expect the unexpected!
Life is a row of mistakes, but avoiding them will not make life shorter!
Every kind of biological life is egoistical, but the human race is the only known one that successfully manages to destroy the living room of its own descendants.

Some of my better creations: The Ancient Knight, Ain Ebel Warfare, United AIV, Dark Skies over Al'Shareed

[This message has been edited by Heroesflorian (edited 06-23-2009 @ 11:06 AM).]

LordBalian
Archer
posted 07-24-09 08:12 EST (US)     17 / 29       
Hi, Heroes...

I try to reply your e-mail several time but I receive "failure" message. Please sent me your map, I interest to be play-tester for your map.

Thanks...
Heroesflorian
Archer
posted 07-27-09 08:28 EST (US)     18 / 29       
Hi LordBalian,

glad that you would like to playtest =D Tyvm!

Sending you the files right now.

If you have trouble with responding to the email I sent you, you may try my other email-adress (in my profile).

---

By the way, using a different condition, I have fixed the problem with the colour of the Lord that has to be killed now... Von Schmidt was right, but I was a bit confused, I think... =)


Heroesflorian

Ever expect the unexpected!
Life is a row of mistakes, but avoiding them will not make life shorter!
Every kind of biological life is egoistical, but the human race is the only known one that successfully manages to destroy the living room of its own descendants.

Some of my better creations: The Ancient Knight, Ain Ebel Warfare, United AIV, Dark Skies over Al'Shareed
Heroesflorian
Archer
posted 11-02-09 15:43 EST (US)     19 / 29       
Hi guys, I haven't been doing anything for quite a long time... Sry!
But I recognized that the mission is not winnable as the win-condition with the Lord killed "the rat" does not work - and I do not know, why!

And releasing Ain Ebel Warfare with this bug is what I wanted least. And after some time I kinda' forgot about it...


Heroesflorian

Ever expect the unexpected!
Life is a row of mistakes, but avoiding them will not make life shorter!
Every kind of biological life is egoistical, but the human race is the only known one that successfully manages to destroy the living room of its own descendants.

Some of my better creations: The Ancient Knight, Ain Ebel Warfare, United AIV, Dark Skies over Al'Shareed
gamegeekkl
Archer
posted 11-02-09 22:43 EST (US)     20 / 29       
Looks amazing. Will be very happy to play this one when it's done.

-gamegeekkl-
Ilmarinen
Archer
(id: Cilibinarii)
posted 11-03-09 09:07 EST (US)     21 / 29       
Holy horse droppings that looks amazing! Definately downloading, keep up the *awesome* work.

Cilibinarii
My AOK Maps
Heroesflorian
Archer
posted 11-15-09 14:50 EST (US)     22 / 29       
Thx guys =D

But does anyone know, how to fix that problem?

Or is anyone very into scripting, and may be able to help, if I send him/her the file?

Would be really amazing =)


Heroesflorian

Ever expect the unexpected!
Life is a row of mistakes, but avoiding them will not make life shorter!
Every kind of biological life is egoistical, but the human race is the only known one that successfully manages to destroy the living room of its own descendants.

Some of my better creations: The Ancient Knight, Ain Ebel Warfare, United AIV, Dark Skies over Al'Shareed
peter2008
Knight
posted 11-15-09 15:58 EST (US)     23 / 29       
Does "Enemy Lord killed: any" help?

Of Honour without Fame,
Of Greatness without Splendour,
Of Dignity without Pay
- Walter Benjamin
Heroesflorian
Archer
posted 11-20-09 14:51 EST (US)     24 / 29       
Nope. The problem is (you can see this in a screen-shot): At the beginning, the yellow Lord attacks your one (this is wanted). The yellow Lord does not have anything to do with the orange castle (of course, how should he?^^). If I use enemy Lord killed any, you win right at the beginning (after you manage to fulfill the other win-conditions, which are really easy to get =D ) - without conquering the orange castle, which shall be the main target in the mission.

I think there would be 3 alternatives:
1. Placing lions (that cannot be killed except from being shot from archers on the keep) next to the keep, which means that you have to occupy the keep with soldiers, and shot the lions down, after the orange Lord is killed. (Would work, as one of the targets is to kill all lions on the map)
But this also means: Simply sending in enough mace-men/assassins/whatever is not enough, you must send an additional number of archers/crossbowmen(or stone throwers) to shoot the lions one by one (not reachable with arrows from all over the keep, but just from a few tiles of it), so these archers have to survive long enough. --> You need many of them, or you have to kill ALL surrounding hostile archers on ALL of the towers of the castle (there are many towers!). ==> The mission becomes harder.

2. Setting a different win-condition: "enemy troops killed: X" But: How is a player supposed to count the killed troops to know, how many are there left to kill (would have to be somewhere between 150 and 1k)? So the player cannot really plan "ok, need to kill f.e. 50 more, so 20 horse-archers should do". Moreover, this makes not that much sense, as there are units around (or far away from) the castle, and units inside it. Killing the outside-ones would not really let you win in real life --> very unrealistic. And: killing 1 more or 1 less unit would make no difference in real life. ==> very very unrealistic.

3. Setting a different win-condition: "all enemy troops killed" But: Neither in real life, nor ingame (as it is should be) you have to kill every single unit. Again, killing two or three units outside/far away from the castle, or killing them not should not make an important difference. Moreover, you do not even see every single unit, as there are hostile assassins (spoiler!^^) on the map. Have fun searching - and finding - them all in time...
(Remember the auto-lose condition!) Another point is that there may be some quite inaccessible units, making you spend much time just for reaching them.
==> These arguments show that this would make the scenario much harder, probably even not winnable.

If YOU / I are/am not able to fix the bug, I will release the mission with the first alternative some-when, as it is the best one (at least as I see it). But I really don't want to capitulate for(or whatever preposition would be right here) a bug. Moreover, I planned including 2 versions, one with "lord killed: rat" and another one with the lions-trick, offering 2 different difficulty levels to you (who are similar, but still make some bunch of a difference, especially for not-so-good players).

If anyone knows, how to help, or thinks he/she knows, I am willing to sent the map to you to do what you think has to be done. Mentioning you when I release the map is quite likely =D

(Btw I have version 1.1)

Thanks in advance, Cheers,

Heroesflorian

Ever expect the unexpected!
Life is a row of mistakes, but avoiding them will not make life shorter!
Every kind of biological life is egoistical, but the human race is the only known one that successfully manages to destroy the living room of its own descendants.

Some of my better creations: The Ancient Knight, Ain Ebel Warfare, United AIV, Dark Skies over Al'Shareed
ericgolf
Earl
posted 11-20-09 17:50 EST (US)     25 / 29       
'Seem to me like you have considered some good scripting possibilities and should go with the one you feel is best. My one bit of advice is not to get too hung up on the "realistic/unrealistic" aspect. Instead go for the one that will make for a most fun game

[This message has been edited by ericgolf (edited 11-20-2009 @ 05:50 PM).]

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