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Stronghold 2 » Forums » Stronghold: Game Help & Strategy Discussions » Number Crunching
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Topic Subject:Number Crunching
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Merepatra
HG Alumnus
posted 11-24-01 15:33 EST (US)         
I've started doing some playing around with "number crunching" in Stronghold. I thought that maybe some other people might also be working on, or be interested in, this kind of thing and if so they could also post anything they find out, or are curious about, in this thread.

The first thing I have done is working out the speed at which the different people in the game travel. I will be putting that into the next post. Doing this has led me into starting work on production rates of farms and industries, hopefully I will have something to post about them before long.

This thread is getting so long that it has become a major task for people to find what has been discussed previously so below is a list of some of the main points covered, either as posts in this thread or as articles that have come from these posts. These only cover some of the main points or numbers, there are many interesting discussions not covered by them so anyone with the time would do well to read the whole thread.

Production cycles and walker speeds - Living by numbers article

Fear Factor details and effects - The Good, the Bad and the Mechanics article

Popularity and Taxing - Dr Popularity

Combat related hitpoints etc - Post 258. This post is a compendium of what has been discovered about combat strengths etc.

[This message has been edited by Merepatra (edited 05-29-2002 @ 00:11 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
derusett
Archer
posted 03-13-02 01:00 EST (US)     176 / 294       
Not really crunched just broken up numbers


you can suport 11 guys at double rations per apple orchard. aslong at the apple orchard is in one of these places

AAA
AGA
AAA
smaller a's suport 9 or 10 people
aaaaa
aAAAa
aAGAa
aAAAa
aaaaa

all this is fine and dandy as long as your game isn't going ot take longer then an hour, after an hour the apple orchards have about 1/2 the productivity because they grow out and lose trees, I delete and rebuild orchards every 40 min if possible

all the times are asuming game speed is 45 since thats what I normally play and these are game observations not proven threw free build tests and what not.

*note*
after pop of 100 apple suplies seem to drop too fast to keep up the ratio. you need a large store of food to hold you for 2 months with no food comming in once you get past 100 people

[This message has been edited by derusett (edited 03-13-2002 @ 01:02 AM).]

Wraith
Archer
posted 03-14-02 01:41 EST (US)     177 / 294       
Interesting fact: It takes 3 killing pits to kill a lord.

Guard your walls, I am coming.
My Recommendations
Merepatra
HG Alumnus
posted 03-15-02 07:23 EST (US)     178 / 294       
Finally got around to checking and have an answer to derusett's question about wheat fields from post 172.

Yes wheat (and hops) fields continue to grow if you unman them after the crop has been sown. Could be a useful thing to know at times

Jayhawk
Eminence Grise
posted 03-15-02 07:31 EST (US)     179 / 294       
Such as in briefly freeing up a lot of people for subscription?
blacksheep1
Archer
posted 03-15-02 11:22 EST (US)     180 / 294       
Done any "crunching" on damage/hit point values yet? Also does the number of attackers increase with an increase in the difficulty rating or the frequency of attacks or both?
derusett
Archer
posted 03-15-02 14:17 EST (US)     181 / 294       
I was more thinking that you could use 1 mill for every 3 wheat fields, as soon as the wheat field has given all its wheat and been planted put it to sleep and open up the mill, then as the wheat grows your mill guys work will only be helpful in low population maps.
Merepatra
HG Alumnus
posted 03-15-02 14:23 EST (US)     182 / 294       
Hi and welcome to Stronghold Heaven blacksheep1

There is quite a bit about damage/hit points buried in this thread. Have a look at posts 63, 69, 85, 89, 100, 111, 157 and there are probably some I've missed.

The number of attackers varies depending on the difficulty level the mission is played at.


Brave Sir Robin
Archer
posted 03-15-02 15:42 EST (US)     183 / 294       
How *did* you get all those post numbers? Scanning?

Brave Sir Robin
Expert combiner of official Stronghold art.
Knavish Knave of Knavery, The Tragedie of BSR.
Scenario Designer and Member of Tsunami Studios.
Head of The Tsuniversity

Wraith
Archer
posted 03-15-02 17:44 EST (US)     184 / 294       
I was planning on doing an actually table of who does what damage, and hit points, etc, but will not attempt such a chart, until the new patch is out, as many numbers will change.

Guard your walls, I am coming.
My Recommendations
Adiperius
Archer
posted 03-16-02 04:40 EST (US)     185 / 294       
Let's all make a note:
The numbers aren't very nice...infact, they're evil!
Espeically in Stronghold where numbers change via difficult level. Then one must find out damage...which will be quite a pain. Does a crossbowman do more damage than a swordsman?
These sorts of questions can pop up...and wotnot. Heh. But it'd be a nice chart, surely.

Scribe: A large army of the..err..Wraith's men are coming this way, my liege?
Pikeman: Wraith?!
Jester: The apocalypse is upon us!
Mother: Save us m'lord!
Chickens: Cluck!
Wraith
Archer
posted 03-16-02 05:21 EST (US)     186 / 294       
I like the #s. They give me a dynamic edge, and show me the path to winning. Imaging if napoleaon had a chart:men at arms, 10 hps, attack with archers? Im SURE he would use that!

Guard your walls, I am coming.
My Recommendations
Adiperius
Archer
posted 03-16-02 05:38 EST (US)     187 / 294       
Hm..Napolean was evil, too!
Not to mention it is nice...but in Stronghold, the numbers are hazy, indecisive...you have no way of actually knowing how many points are lost when hit with a spear or pike. You just know the meter drops.
It's different with buildings and wotnot, where the numbers make more sense....yeah.

Scribe: A large army of the..err..Wraith's men are coming this way, my liege?
Pikeman: Wraith?!
Jester: The apocalypse is upon us!
Mother: Save us m'lord!
Chickens: Cluck!
Wraith
Archer
posted 03-16-02 14:25 EST (US)     188 / 294       
If I didnt know pikemen were better than swords men to crossbow fire, I would never have used them!

Guard your walls, I am coming.
My Recommendations
Adiperius
Archer
posted 03-17-02 21:34 EST (US)     189 / 294       
*sighs* Wraith....we know pikemen are better with crossbow fire..what we don't know is if they have resistances to crossbow fire that swordsmen don't. That doesn't mean Pikemen have higher HP than swordsmen whatsoever because of it. The numbers only add up if you have all the factors, right?

Scribe: A large army of the..err..Wraith's men are coming this way, my liege?
Pikeman: Wraith?!
Jester: The apocalypse is upon us!
Mother: Save us m'lord!
Chickens: Cluck!
Wraith
Archer
posted 03-17-02 21:47 EST (US)     190 / 294       
Sorry, I would disagree... It take 12 bolts to kill a swordsman, and 18 to kill the pikeman. They Do have advantage over the swordsman, vs crossbow. As for archer, swordsman are far superior, at 200 arrows to kill, as opposed to 35. Better?

Guard your walls, I am coming.
My Recommendations
Adiperius
Archer
posted 03-17-02 22:23 EST (US)     191 / 294       
Wraith..you're only reiterating my point.
There are "hidden" factors that have nothing to really do with the HP of the unit, but their resistences to certain units. Swordsmen are strong against archers, whilst the pikeman is stronger against X-bows. *holds back from strangling Wraith

Scribe: A large army of the..err..Wraith's men are coming this way, my liege?
Pikeman: Wraith?!
Jester: The apocalypse is upon us!
Mother: Save us m'lord!
Chickens: Cluck!
derusett
Archer
posted 03-17-02 22:53 EST (US)     192 / 294       
swords men are the best unit.

they beat pikemen 2:1
knights 3:2
and other units better but not worried about cause they are never in debate.


Pikemen follow close as second. only because they can dig moats

that is how they beat out knights.


"When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite. "
"Strength lies not in defense but in attack."
" you were born to be a chalk outline"

Wraith
Archer
posted 03-17-02 23:41 EST (US)     193 / 294       
Its just the way I work, lol
Um dont strangle me...I'll sack your castle

Guard your walls, I am coming.
My Recommendations

[This message has been edited by Wraith (edited 04-09-2002 @ 03:27 AM).]

blacksheep1
Archer
posted 03-18-02 16:50 EST (US)     194 / 294       
How does food consumption work for millitary? I've noticed that as you recruit the campfire keeps filling w/ppl if you have an abundance, (pop. does not increase however) but does the millitary count for food consumption?

[This message has been edited by blacksheep1 (edited 03-18-2002 @ 04:51 PM).]

derusett
Archer
posted 03-18-02 17:02 EST (US)     195 / 294       
Military does not eat food or cost anything after creation

"When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite. "
"Strength lies not in defense but in attack."
" you were born to be a chalk outline"

foulgrin
Archer
posted 03-18-02 18:59 EST (US)     196 / 294       
Combining all the posts for damage between units, and fudging the numbers slightly to make the trends work, I get something like this:

Unit/HP
Archer/10
Spearmen/10
Crossbow/15
Maceman/15
Pikemem/50
Swordman/30
Knight/20

There is a 4x bonus for defender wearing armor vs arrow and xbow, 2x bonus for leather, [but on top of this sword and night get a whopping 10X bonus vs arrow - probably there is another variable "hit probability" which is apparently 10% for Sword/Knight vs Arrow - so you need 10x the number of arrows so 10% "hit", then you still get the armor bonus to your HP...]

Weapon/damage
Arrow/3
Bolt/10
Spear/1
Pike/1.25
Mace/2.5
Sword/5
Mounted Sword/2.5

Again these hold up well except for against Sword/Knight, where the "hit probability" for Mace vs Sword and mounted Sword is about 50%, for Sword vs Sword 50% and Sword vs Mounted Sword 25%.

Generally speaking though, looking at all the other posts and tweaking the "hits to kill with" numbers one or two up or down, these numbers hold up well.

Notice the high HP for pikemen... so that's why they need 3 kill pits to die, it seems they have the highest HP value.

Let me know if these seem to work for you.

blacksheep1
Archer
posted 03-19-02 15:56 EST (US)     197 / 294       
Thanks foulgrin for the numbers, they should help alot.

I want to know what the numbers in the marketplace mean under this is what I have to trade. The marketplace itself says that it should be (I think) quantity of resources/price for ??? (buying or selling), but the numbers never seem to match up. Anybody got any ideas, am I missing something here?

Merepatra
HG Alumnus
posted 03-19-02 16:30 EST (US)     198 / 294       
The numbers are for buy/sell. For instance food costs you 8 gold to buy but you only get 4 gold when you sell it so you will see cheese 8/4

[This message has been edited by Merepatra (edited 03-19-2002 @ 04:31 PM).]

blacksheep1
Archer
posted 03-19-02 19:19 EST (US)     199 / 294       
But is that for just one unit of cheese? Because sometimes you will see those numbers but when you go to buy/sell the numbers are different.
Merepatra
HG Alumnus
posted 03-19-02 19:21 EST (US)     200 / 294       
That is for one unit. When you actually go to buy or sell then they show the numbers for buying/selling a larger amount. This is 5 is you have less than a certain amount in stock and increases in stages up to 50 when you have more.
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