You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Stronghold: Game Help & Strategy Discussions
Moderated by peter2008, Lord Michael I, ericgolf, Lord_of_Hell

Hop to:    
Welcome! You are not logged in. Please Login or Register.294 replies, Sticky
Stronghold 2 » Forums » Stronghold: Game Help & Strategy Discussions » Number Crunching
Bottom
Topic Subject:Number Crunching
« Previous Page  1 2 3 4 ··· 10 ··· 12  Next Page »
Merepatra
HG Alumnus
posted 11-24-01 15:33 EST (US)         
I've started doing some playing around with "number crunching" in Stronghold. I thought that maybe some other people might also be working on, or be interested in, this kind of thing and if so they could also post anything they find out, or are curious about, in this thread.

The first thing I have done is working out the speed at which the different people in the game travel. I will be putting that into the next post. Doing this has led me into starting work on production rates of farms and industries, hopefully I will have something to post about them before long.

This thread is getting so long that it has become a major task for people to find what has been discussed previously so below is a list of some of the main points covered, either as posts in this thread or as articles that have come from these posts. These only cover some of the main points or numbers, there are many interesting discussions not covered by them so anyone with the time would do well to read the whole thread.

Production cycles and walker speeds - Living by numbers article

Fear Factor details and effects - The Good, the Bad and the Mechanics article

Popularity and Taxing - Dr Popularity

Combat related hitpoints etc - Post 258. This post is a compendium of what has been discovered about combat strengths etc.

[This message has been edited by Merepatra (edited 05-29-2002 @ 00:11 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
Brave Sir Robin
Archer
posted 12-01-01 00:39 EST (US)     26 / 294       
You're amazing Mere.

The fact that birch gives less yield will certainly help us with placement, and the values will help no end with planning, especially early on.

Are you intending (when you've finished) to put this on the site? This is a great resource (no pun intended )


Brave Sir Robin
Expert combiner of official Stronghold art.
Knavish Knave of Knavery, The Tragedie of BSR.
Scenario Designer and Member of Tsunami Studios.
Head of The Tsuniversity

[This message has been edited by Brave Sir Robin (edited 12-01-2001 @ 00:43 AM).]

Merepatra
HG Alumnus
posted 12-01-01 01:59 EST (US)     27 / 294       
Thanks Sir Robin Yes once this has been up for a while and we are fairly sure I haven't missed anything (or at least too much) it will be going up on the site.
Brave Sir Robin
Archer
posted 12-01-01 04:20 EST (US)     28 / 294       
Good to hear

Brave Sir Robin
Expert combiner of official Stronghold art.
Knavish Knave of Knavery, The Tragedie of BSR.
Scenario Designer and Member of Tsunami Studios.
Head of The Tsuniversity

Merepatra
HG Alumnus
posted 12-01-01 04:42 EST (US)     29 / 294       
Next its all the other industries.

Industry Production

Stone and Oxen

Stone quarries need 3 workers and produce stone at the rate of approx 20 stone per year. The stone is placed onto a stone pile which can hold up to 48 stone. If the stone pile reaches the maximum 48 stone then work is stopped until some is picked up. Oxen tethers are needed to carry the stone to the stockpile

The Oxen tether workers walk to the nearest stone pile with stone and collect stone one at a time and carry them back to their tether. Once they have a full load of 8 stone they take them to the stockpile. If the tether is directly next to the stone pile it is collecting stone from then it takes approx 4 months for them to collect a full load. The further away the stone is of course the longer it takes.

Add in the time taken to deliver the stone to the stockpile and return and you will nearly always need more than one oxen tether per stone quarry. The further the distance to the stockpile is the more you will need, as with the slow oxen speed of 25 tiles per month on many maps they may only deliver 1 or even less loads of stone per year.

If the closest stone pile has no stone then they will travel to the next closest one with stone. In testing I found that sometimes they would then continue to travel to the further away one even after the closer one again had stone. This is not too big a problem if your quarries are very close to each other, but if they are widely separated it could be. For this reason I would be careful not to let a stone pile completely run out of stone if I did have separate stone quarries.

Pitch

A pitch rig takes approximately 2 months to produce 1 jug of pitch. There is only 1 worker who produces the pitch, he then carries it to the stockpile and returns to start producing the next jug.


Iron

Iron mines have 2 workers. The first miner goes down the mine, gets the ore and then comes back up and puts the ore in the furnace. He then returns down the mine to start again. The 2nd miner waits for the iron block to come from the furnace and then carries it to the stockpile. Each block takes 2 months total to be produced. If the 2nd miner is not back before more blocks are produced then they form a pile of up to 8 blocks. Once 8 blocks are stored miner 1 stops working until the pile is back down to 6 blocks.


Brave Sir Robin
Archer
posted 12-01-01 04:49 EST (US)     30 / 294       
Once again, great work

Brave Sir Robin
Expert combiner of official Stronghold art.
Knavish Knave of Knavery, The Tragedie of BSR.
Scenario Designer and Member of Tsunami Studios.
Head of The Tsuniversity

Jayhawk
Eminence Grise
posted 12-01-01 12:26 EST (US)     31 / 294       
You realise the scenario options this gives, don't you?

Maps with scattered, small quarries.
Maps with only birches for a reduced production of wood.

I keep being amazed at the amount of detail that went into this game.


Angel Jayhawk
Eyrie • Caesar 4 Heaven • Children of the Nile Heaven • Stronghold Heaven • Caesar 3 Heaven • Emperor Heaven • Pharaoh Heaven • Zeus Heaven • My Deviations
Support your local Heaven • My Recommendations • EXCO • HALO
I believe violence will only increase the cycle of violence. — The Dalai Lama
Merepatra
HG Alumnus
posted 12-03-01 00:43 EST (US)     32 / 294       
This is the last of the production time observations I have made.


Weapon Production

Weapon production time depends a lot upon the distance to the stockpile and armoury. The production times stated below are the times it takes to produce the weapon once all raw materials have been collected. The time it takes to deliver the weapon to the armoury must also be added. Optimum placement of weapons workshops would be directly adjacent to the stockpile (or a dairy farm in the case of leather tanner) and the armoury. The further away the workshops are from these two buildings (and except for fletchers, the more distance there is between the armoury and stockpile) then the slower production will be.


Fletcher

Bows

Requires 2 wood
The Fletcher walks to the stockpile, picks up 1 wood and returns to his workshop, he then makes another trip to the stockpile to get the 2nd plank of wood. Once back he starts producing the bow, this takes approximately 2 months. He then carries it to the armoury and returns to his workshop to start all over again.

Note unlike all the other weapons producers the Fletcher will not collect his first wood while returning from the armoury, this can slow down the production time compared to other weapon producers.

Crossbows

Requires 3 wood
Same process as for bows but with an extra plank of wood required meaning an extra trip to the stockpile. The production time is also approx 2 months.

Poleturner

Spears

Requires 1 wood
The Poleturner walks to the stockpile, collects 1 wood and returns and starts making the spear. Producing the spear takes less than 1 month. He then takes the spear to the armoury then goes to the stockpile to collect another wood before returning to his workshop and producing the next spear.


Pikes

Requires 2 wood
The Poleturner walks to the stockpile, collects 1 wood, returns to his workshop and then back to the stockpile for the 2nd wood. Upon returning this time he starts producing the pike which takes approximately 2 months. He then takes this to the armoury and from there heads to the stockpile to pick up the 1st piece of wood for the next pike.


Blacksmith

Swords

Requires 1 iron
The Blacksmith walks to the stockpile, collects the iron and return to his workshop. It then takes approximately 2 months for him to produce a sword. He then takes it to the armoury and from there heads to the stockpile for another block of iron.


Maces

Requires 1 iron
Same process as for swords, it also takes approximately 2 months to produce a mace.


Leather Tanner

Requires 1 cow for 3 sets of leather armour
The Tanner walks to the closest dairy farm with a cow, collects it and returns to her workshop. She then kills the cow and goes into her workshop to begin producing leather armour. It takes a bit less than 3 months for her to produce each armour. She then takes it to the armoury and returns to her workshop to begin producing the next armour. Once 3 armours have been produced she will collect another cow.


Armourer

Requires 1 iron
The Armourer walks to the stockpile, collects a block of iron and returns and starts producing armour. It takes approximately 2 months to produce each set of armour. He then takes it to the armoury then proceeds to the stockpile to collect a block of iron for the next armour.


[This message has been edited by Merepatra (edited 12-03-2001 @ 00:44 AM).]

Jayhawk
Eminence Grise
posted 12-03-01 03:29 EST (US)     33 / 294       
Interesting to see leather armour takes longer to produce than metal armour and that a crossbow is produced as fast as a normal one even if the fletcher is adding another plank of wood...

:: is confused ::


Angel Jayhawk
Eyrie • Caesar 4 Heaven • Children of the Nile Heaven • Stronghold Heaven • Caesar 3 Heaven • Emperor Heaven • Pharaoh Heaven • Zeus Heaven • My Deviations
Support your local Heaven • My Recommendations • EXCO • HALO
I believe violence will only increase the cycle of violence. — The Dalai Lama
Merepatra
HG Alumnus
posted 12-03-01 03:35 EST (US)     34 / 294       
Well I'm confused by why the Fletcher can only carry one piece of wood at a time and yet the woodcutter can carry 12. I know he may be an old guy with a limp but surely he should be stronger than that .
StarKey
Pharaolympics 2000 Competitor
posted 12-03-01 13:25 EST (US)     35 / 294       
The Fletcher must be union...the woodcutter must be self employed.

By the way, this is great stuff Mere thanks so much for taking the time to do what must be a tedious task...you're earning your wings this week, for sure.

StarKey

Brave Sir Robin
Archer
posted 12-04-01 00:29 EST (US)     36 / 294       
Yes, me too Jayhawk

Yes, Starkey, isn't she wonderful?


Brave Sir Robin
Expert combiner of official Stronghold art.
Knavish Knave of Knavery, The Tragedie of BSR.
Scenario Designer and Member of Tsunami Studios.
Head of The Tsuniversity

Jayhawk
Eminence Grise
posted 12-04-01 04:28 EST (US)     37 / 294       
She is, Sir Robin
Why do you think I hired her

Angel Jayhawk
Eyrie • Caesar 4 Heaven • Children of the Nile Heaven • Stronghold Heaven • Caesar 3 Heaven • Emperor Heaven • Pharaoh Heaven • Zeus Heaven • My Deviations
Support your local Heaven • My Recommendations • EXCO • HALO
I believe violence will only increase the cycle of violence. — The Dalai Lama
Merepatra
HG Alumnus
posted 12-04-01 06:52 EST (US)     38 / 294       
One more thing I've been playing with is the Efficiency rating.

Efficiency Rating

Placing Bad Things increases your Fear Factor Cruel, placing Good Things increases your Fear Factor Pleasant . See post 2 in this thread for the numbers of bad/good things required to change your Fear Factor

One effect of Fear Factor is to change the efficiency of your workers. For every point increase in Fear Factor Cruel your efficiency rating raises 10% to a maximum of 150% at Fear Factor Cruel 5. For every point increase in Fear Factor Pleasant your efficiency rating decreases by 10% to a minimum of 50% at Fear Factor Pleasant 5.

I have done some tests to determine what this means in practical terms.

Bad Things – Increased Efficiency

Your workers will deliver extra goods (made magically with no increase in raw material used) to the stockpile/granary/armoury by delivering an extra load along with their normal load.

At 110% efficiency they do this 1 time every 10 loads
At 120% efficiency they do this 2 times every 10 loads
At 130% efficiency they do this 3 times every 10 loads
At 140% efficiency they do this 4 times every 10 loads
At 150% efficiency they do this 5 times every 10 loads

This large increase in production must be offset against the disadvantages of a Cruel Fear Factor which are –

A negative Combat bonus of 5% for every point of Fear Factor Cruel (how Combat bonus works I have as yet no idea)

A decrease in your Popularity of 1 for every 1 point of Fear Factor Cruel

Cost, each bad thing costs 50 gold.


In economic missions I would think that the increase in efficiency would often more than make up for the drop in Popularity, cost and the loss of effectiveness of troops against wolves, bandits etc.

In military missions where you can produce weapons and trade and where a shortage of weapons is a factor in producing troops it could also occasionally be worthwhile, possibly with the option of deleting the bad things once enough weapons were produced.

Good Things – Decreased Efficiency

Between loads your workers will wander around the good things or just stand outside their buildings doing nothing for a while. This was much harder to measure and my tests indicated that the decrease in efficiency isn’t as precise as the increase from bad things is. In some cases I ended up getting more goods than I would have expected over a set time, in others less. One thing I did note was that at decreased efficiency all the workers from weapon workshops returned to their workshop after going to the armoury before they would collect the next load of raw materials. This means that if the workshops are some distance from the stockpile at 90% efficiency the actual drop in production can be significantly more. At lower efficiency this evens out more.

Some other things that I observed. The workers do not always go to the closest good thing, but seem to select one randomly within an undefined area. If good things are close they will go there between every load. If the only good things are right at the other side of the map they will go there, even if it means a 2 year walk! On return they will then work at normal pace for a period of time, with maybe a short break outside their workshop occasionally. I presume that over time this means that in either case they end up resting and working for a similar amount of time. It can cause major problems in the short term though, so I would suggest spreading good things around your map not too far from your workers.

The disadvantages of good things are this decreased efficiency and the cost of 30 gold per good thing. The advantages are increased Combat Bonus of 5% and a Popularity rise of 1 for every point of Fear Factor Pleasant.

In economic missions I doubt if I would use good things unless a Fear Factor Pleasant was a requirement.

In military missions the Combat Bonus could be very useful. As yet though I have no idea exactly what the bonus entails. Does it increase attack rating, defence rating, both or is it something completely separate? Something for somebody to find out one day hopefully

Jayhawk
Eminence Grise
posted 12-04-01 08:11 EST (US)     39 / 294       
Well, the easiest way to find this out would be to design a little map with on attacking soldier of a type each few months, and countering them with various soldiers of your own.

You'll need some money to build good things as you go along, but it's a fairly 'simple' scenario


Angel Jayhawk
Eyrie • Caesar 4 Heaven • Children of the Nile Heaven • Stronghold Heaven • Caesar 3 Heaven • Emperor Heaven • Pharaoh Heaven • Zeus Heaven • My Deviations
Support your local Heaven • My Recommendations • EXCO • HALO
I believe violence will only increase the cycle of violence. — The Dalai Lama
Merepatra
HG Alumnus
posted 12-04-01 08:16 EST (US)     40 / 294       
Then I hope you have fun doing it AJ

I'm intending to stop counting and start playing for a while

Jayhawk
Eminence Grise
posted 12-04-01 08:27 EST (US)     41 / 294       
I can't just yet, I had to promise some lady in green I'd finish the walkthroughs first...

Angel Jayhawk
Eyrie • Caesar 4 Heaven • Children of the Nile Heaven • Stronghold Heaven • Caesar 3 Heaven • Emperor Heaven • Pharaoh Heaven • Zeus Heaven • My Deviations
Support your local Heaven • My Recommendations • EXCO • HALO
I believe violence will only increase the cycle of violence. — The Dalai Lama
Brave Sir Robin
Archer
posted 12-04-01 13:52 EST (US)     42 / 294       
Can't you hunt down another wonderful Cherub to do your bidding?

Brave Sir Robin
Expert combiner of official Stronghold art.
Knavish Knave of Knavery, The Tragedie of BSR.
Scenario Designer and Member of Tsunami Studios.
Head of The Tsuniversity

Jayhawk
Eminence Grise
posted 12-04-01 14:08 EST (US)     43 / 294       
There is susch a thing as too many cherubs, Sir Robin.

Angel Jayhawk
Eyrie • Caesar 4 Heaven • Children of the Nile Heaven • Stronghold Heaven • Caesar 3 Heaven • Emperor Heaven • Pharaoh Heaven • Zeus Heaven • My Deviations
Support your local Heaven • My Recommendations • EXCO • HALO
I believe violence will only increase the cycle of violence. — The Dalai Lama
Brave Sir Robin
Archer
posted 12-04-01 15:03 EST (US)     44 / 294       
Nooo, I mean one of the *current* Cherubs

Brave Sir Robin
Expert combiner of official Stronghold art.
Knavish Knave of Knavery, The Tragedie of BSR.
Scenario Designer and Member of Tsunami Studios.
Head of The Tsuniversity

Bradius
Archer
posted 12-04-01 22:28 EST (US)     45 / 294       
We cherubs flee at the sight of seraphs

whenever possible that is...that's why they don't want more. We are too hard to round up

Jayhawk
Eminence Grise
posted 12-05-01 04:01 EST (US)     46 / 294       
So, Bradius, when are you going to share your skills at this game with us?

Angel Jayhawk
Eyrie • Caesar 4 Heaven • Children of the Nile Heaven • Stronghold Heaven • Caesar 3 Heaven • Emperor Heaven • Pharaoh Heaven • Zeus Heaven • My Deviations
Support your local Heaven • My Recommendations • EXCO • HALO
I believe violence will only increase the cycle of violence. — The Dalai Lama
Bradius
Archer
posted 12-05-01 20:42 EST (US)     47 / 294       
What skills????

I'm over 40 like Rocky. I am lucky if I can play on normal right now! I have finished the economics campaign (I was disapointed that there were only 5 missions), but I am petrified of the military campaign. I waaaant my roads back!

Sorry folks, but I am just miserable. Of course working 60+ hours a week doesn't help

Brave Sir Robin
Archer
posted 12-05-01 23:03 EST (US)     48 / 294       
What type of job works you that hard?

Don't worry, the first 5 Military missions are easy. After that it gets harder


Brave Sir Robin
Expert combiner of official Stronghold art.
Knavish Knave of Knavery, The Tragedie of BSR.
Scenario Designer and Member of Tsunami Studios.
Head of The Tsuniversity

Jayhawk
Eminence Grise
posted 12-06-01 03:12 EST (US)     49 / 294       
Where we're going we don't need roads.

Different context, but still correct

You can treat the first couple of military missions more as economic missions, Bradius. As Sir Robin says the fun starts at mission 6-7.


Angel Jayhawk
Eyrie • Caesar 4 Heaven • Children of the Nile Heaven • Stronghold Heaven • Caesar 3 Heaven • Emperor Heaven • Pharaoh Heaven • Zeus Heaven • My Deviations
Support your local Heaven • My Recommendations • EXCO • HALO
I believe violence will only increase the cycle of violence. — The Dalai Lama
Bradius
Archer
posted 12-06-01 07:35 EST (US)     50 / 294       
Okay, fine. I went ahead and started the Military Campaign. I finished the first two or three late last night. Very easy so far, but as you say....

As for my job, I am a Risk Manager like Reck. Disasters are my thing, and lately there has been plenty to do...Then, they do also like to let me do some other fun stuff ...then no time for Stronghold.

Oh, this is a General Strategy Forum. Hum, keep your food production close to your grainery and your wood choppers close to your trees. No wells or fires yet! I tend to like long distance fighting or fighting in strength. I can't wait to try a crossbowman.

[This message has been edited by Bradius (edited 12-06-2001 @ 07:39 AM).]

« Previous Page  1 2 3 4 ··· 10 ··· 12  Next Page »
You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Hop to:    

Stronghold 2 | HeavenGames