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Stronghold 2 and Legends: Scenario Design and Modding Forum
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Stronghold 2 » Forums » Stronghold 2 and Legends: Scenario Design and Modding Forum » Scenario Design Articles
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Topic Subject:Scenario Design Articles
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Kester
Seraph Emeritus
posted 05-05-05 13:45 EST (US)         
It's great to see all the new tricks people are finding with the map editor - IMHO finding out-of-the-ordinary things to do with the editor is what makes the Stronghold series so much fun. I.e. the shallow water trick Wize1 just found.

If you'd like to write up your findings into a short how-to tutorial, we can add it to the Design Article section of the Scenario Design section to share with everyone.

Just please check with me first, either in this thread or at my email address kester @ heavengames.com to be sure that someone else isn't already working on the same topic.

I'd love to see all of these new scenario design tricks and techniques written up.


.-•°•-.-• Kester •-.-•°•-.
•-.-•°•-.-• deviations .-•°•-. flickr .-•°•-. gamertag •-.-•°•-.-•
.-•°•-.-• if (Kester.says("Zen! Get online")) { zen.status("online") } •-.-•°•-.
AuthorReplies:
Kester
Seraph Emeritus
posted 05-17-05 00:55 EST (US)     1 / 41       
For examples, check out these:

http://stronghold2.heavengames.com/sd/sd2

http://stronghold2.heavengames.com/sd/sd3


.-•°•-.-• Kester •-.-•°•-.
•-.-•°•-.-• deviations .-•°•-. flickr .-•°•-. gamertag •-.-•°•-.-•
.-•°•-.-• if (Kester.says("Zen! Get online")) { zen.status("online") } •-.-•°•-.

[This message has been edited by Kester (edited 05-17-2005 @ 01:12 AM).]

WarLord_Designs
Archer
posted 05-17-05 01:09 EST (US)     2 / 41       
Kester those links don't seem to work.
Arthus
Kester
Seraph Emeritus
posted 05-17-05 01:13 EST (US)     3 / 41       
Fixed - thanks

.-•°•-.-• Kester •-.-•°•-.
•-.-•°•-.-• deviations .-•°•-. flickr .-•°•-. gamertag •-.-•°•-.-•
.-•°•-.-• if (Kester.says("Zen! Get online")) { zen.status("online") } •-.-•°•-.
WarLord_Designs
Archer
posted 05-17-05 01:17 EST (US)     4 / 41       
I don't want to be the one to complain but my screen is not that big and the white text is basically impossible to see, but then again it may just be me.

[This message has been edited by WarLord_Designs (edited 05-17-2005 @ 01:18 AM).]

Kester
Seraph Emeritus
posted 05-17-05 01:18 EST (US)     5 / 41       
Hmm... does the dark background show up? It should be the same as the rest of the site.

.-•°•-.-• Kester •-.-•°•-.
•-.-•°•-.-• deviations .-•°•-. flickr .-•°•-. gamertag •-.-•°•-.-•
.-•°•-.-• if (Kester.says("Zen! Get online")) { zen.status("online") } •-.-•°•-.

[This message has been edited by Kester (edited 05-17-2005 @ 01:18 AM).]

WarLord_Designs
Archer
posted 05-17-05 01:18 EST (US)     6 / 41       
no it's a creamy colour.. strange
Kester
Seraph Emeritus
posted 05-17-05 01:25 EST (US)     7 / 41       
It doesn't look something like this? Do you have backgrounds disabled for your browser?


.-•°•-.-• Kester •-.-•°•-.
•-.-•°•-.-• deviations .-•°•-. flickr .-•°•-. gamertag •-.-•°•-.-•
.-•°•-.-• if (Kester.says("Zen! Get online")) { zen.status("online") } •-.-•°•-.
WarLord_Designs
Archer
posted 05-17-05 01:34 EST (US)     8 / 41       
no it's not disabled but i'm running a new browser called safari on a mac so maybe i'll go back to internet explorer.
testing......
Sorry for the trouble i just re-installed explorer and yes it works fine, looks like safari was a waste.
(sorry to fill this thred with rubbish, i intend to contribute in the future though)
Arthus
Kester
Seraph Emeritus
posted 05-17-05 01:39 EST (US)     9 / 41       
That's a relief! Safari, though, we might have to look into that. Good to know

.-•°•-.-• Kester •-.-•°•-.
•-.-•°•-.-• deviations .-•°•-. flickr .-•°•-. gamertag •-.-•°•-.-•
.-•°•-.-• if (Kester.says("Zen! Get online")) { zen.status("online") } •-.-•°•-.
Baileyisle
Archer
posted 06-19-05 23:36 EST (US)     10 / 41       
Excellent guide, very helpful. I have printed all of it out to make myself a "scenario design" workbook for myself. I haven't tread all of it yet, but is there any tips/help on campaign design in it? if not, do you have any tips to offer?
Thanks again!

Ajax of Telamon (Bailey Island, ME)
Kester
Seraph Emeritus
posted 06-20-05 11:36 EST (US)     11 / 41       
Thanks, Baileyisle

Campaign design will be the next area we tackle. Are there any particular questions you have?


.-•°•-.-• Kester •-.-•°•-.
•-.-•°•-.-• deviations .-•°•-. flickr .-•°•-. gamertag •-.-•°•-.-•
.-•°•-.-• if (Kester.says("Zen! Get online")) { zen.status("online") } •-.-•°•-.
Baileyisle
Archer
posted 06-20-05 13:28 EST (US)     12 / 41       
Mainly, i want to know if there is a way to transition the end castle situation from one scenario to the beginning of the next scenario, like in the game campaign. I really like this feature, and would love to integrate it into a campaign of my own.

Also, (Dream situation) is there a way to design a campaign for two player to play coop against computer AI opponents? I have tried to play a coop game with a partner in multiplayer mode against AI opponents, and i haven't been able to get this to work yet, Hopefully that will be fixed in an upcoming patch, as it is the main reason i purchased two copies of the game. Thanks for the quick response, You are the best Kester.

Merepatra
HG Alumnus
posted 06-20-05 18:10 EST (US)     13 / 41       
You can't currently play MP against the AI but Firefly have said that will be fixed in a future patch. We don't have any idea of a date for that yet.
Kester
Seraph Emeritus
posted 06-20-05 19:27 EST (US)     14 / 41       

Quoted from Baileyisle:

Mainly, i want to know if there is a way to transition the end castle situation from one scenario to the beginning of the next scenario, like in the game campaign. I really like this feature, and would love to integrate it into a campaign of my own.

That dovetails nicely with the question in this thread (http://stronghold.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forum/display.cgi?action=ct&f=22,2167,,10), so I'll experiment this week (but not tonight, as I have to work).


.-•°•-.-• Kester •-.-•°•-.
•-.-•°•-.-• deviations .-•°•-. flickr .-•°•-. gamertag •-.-•°•-.-•
.-•°•-.-• if (Kester.says("Zen! Get online")) { zen.status("online") } •-.-•°•-.
Baileyisle
Archer
posted 06-20-05 23:26 EST (US)     15 / 41       
Also when setting up the triggers and actions, I can't change any of the variables.

Example: TRIGGER - Lord damaged - can't change % damaged
ACTION - Make troops super aggressive - can't change

Actually, I can't change ANYTHING on any of the Trigger/Action options. It highlights very briefly when I click on the item I want to change, but i cannot change it. I tried arrow up/down, numbers, and every combo of clicks and excessive profanity.

With no multiplayer working, and scenario design blown, needless to say i am beginning to regret buying this game. I need help from one of the Angel squad, Unfortunatley i am not a very patient man. I may transition back to Crusader until SH2 gets unscrewed.

Lady Arcola
SHH Seraph
posted 06-21-05 00:38 EST (US)     16 / 41       
Redeye CoV may present a solution in his thread here. http://stronghold.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forum/display.cgi?action=ct&f=22,2235,0,365
If you played a map like he describes, saved, then made a copy of your save and used it to start the next map would that not carry the castle into the next mission?
( I have not tested the theory yet, but will try this idea with my war map)

Ğ..ğşİşĞ..ğşİşĞ..ğĞ..ğşİşĞ..ğşİşĞ..ğĞ..ğşİşĞ..ğşİşĞ..ğ
Seraph Lady Arcola
"I believe that friends are quiet angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly."
"A real friend is one who walks in when the rest of the world walks out." -Walter Winchell

~ BFME2 Heaven | Stronghold Heaven | Stronghold 2 Heaven~
Ğ..ğşİşĞ..ğşİşĞ..ğĞ..ğşİşĞ..ğşİşĞ..ğĞ..ğşİşĞ..ğşİşĞ..ğ

[This message has been edited by Lady Arcola (edited 06-21-2005 @ 00:40 AM).]

Merepatra
HG Alumnus
posted 06-21-05 01:36 EST (US)     17 / 41       

Quote:

Actually, I can't change ANYTHING on any of the Trigger/Action options. It highlights very briefly when I click on the item I want to change, but i cannot change it.

You need to use the mouse wheel to change these things. If you happen to have a mouse without a wheel there doesn't seem to be any other way to do it.

Redeye CoV
Archer
posted 06-21-05 01:52 EST (US)     18 / 41       

Quoted from Lady Arcola:

If you played a map like he describes, saved, then made a copy of your save and used it to start the next map would that not carry the castle into the next mission?

I'm trying to think if there is a way to keep what a castle is like at the end of a scenario and roll it into the beginning of another... the only thing I could think, is if you made the first scenario so that it ended with you capturing a castle, and that was it, on to the next map. That map could be the exact state of the castle that you captured. The only problem I can see, is if you destroyed buildings and walls, they wouldn't roll over, you would have to have them in some predefine layout (unless there is something I missed in the editor). Of course you could always make something interesting like you attack the castle from the north (it being at the far south of your map) and below it is the 'city' that is blocked off, that would open up and be your actual city in the following scenario. Then have that city/castle at the far north of the map, simulating an army marching through the countryside.. progresively. That could help preserve the integrity of the buildings rolling over.

Again, I think this would be an awesome idea, having units, castles, resources, etc roll over from one scenario to the other, but I think it just isn't possible, but of course you can certainly do it in 1 scenario using missions.

Anyone know the limit of missions per scenario? If there is a large limit, like say 10, you could use one scenario and just keep breaking it up into missions, but something tells me that the limit is nearer to 3 or something. Making this feature feel a bit abbreviated, and not allowing for the larger campaigns.

[This message has been edited by Redeye CoV (edited 06-21-2005 @ 01:55 AM).]

Baileyisle
Archer
posted 06-21-05 02:09 EST (US)     19 / 41       
Mouse wheel, very helpful. (i have a mouse wheel on my Nostromo, very helpful for serious stronghold players, i highly recommend.)

I made a campaign and ran into a problem. Here's the picture:

overview - My castle in my area, several estates on the map, nuetral, The bull in his keep in his area, and olaf in his keep in his area

mission one - Kill the bull, you win
Your lord dies you lose

mission two - Take enemy castle
Kill Olaf, you win
your lord dies you lose

I ran this campaign very quickly, no terrain, no whistles, just to see if the triggers and actions worked. First i throw up a stockpile and a granary. Then i build a merc den, build 12 beserkers, and attack and kill the bull. I win.

next mission starts, objective kill olaf. I am now in the bulls castle so far so good. I run over with beserkers and kill olaf. I win. Very nice!

I start it over just to try the reverse. I complete all the same steps, only instead of attacking the bull right off the bat, i attack and kill olaf. It says i win the first mission.

?

Then, i am in the bulls castle, and olafs keep is already one of my friendly estates. I have no enemies on the screen, and yet my game is not over.

What happened?

[This message has been edited by Baileyisle (edited 06-21-2005 @ 02:17 AM).]

Redeye CoV
Archer
posted 06-21-05 11:40 EST (US)     20 / 41       
Hmm that is strange. Maybe you could set it so that if you attack the wrong lord, you loose. That would keep people from going in the wrong order.
Baileyisle
Archer
posted 06-23-05 17:07 EST (US)     21 / 41       
Finally, by piecing together a little info from all the resources, i finally understand how campaign/scenario design works. I have designed and tested one simple campaign, and it seems to be working great. I would like to thank:
Kester first and most, you are the best lady
Wahnsinniger, your trigger/action info was crucial
Redeyecov, for tips and twists
also Lady Arcola and Merepatra for answering my angry questions very quickly, and keeping me trying over and over again.

I will design a campaign worthy of being posted for download, and will post it soon. Is there a place to upload a campaign yet?

Thanks again everybody. The game is by no means fixed, but with design available it can keep you busy until it is fixed.


Ajax of Telamon (Bailey Island, ME)
Redeye CoV
Archer
posted 06-23-05 19:19 EST (US)     22 / 41       
Yeah good luck, I look forward to playing it.
Kester
Seraph Emeritus
posted 06-23-05 19:22 EST (US)     23 / 41       

Quoted from Baileyisle:

I will design a campaign worthy of being posted for download, and will post it soon. Is there a place to upload a campaign yet?

Files can be uploaded here: http://stronghold2.heavengames.com/downloads/

I hope to finish a map myself one of these days to upload


.-•°•-.-• Kester •-.-•°•-.
•-.-•°•-.-• deviations .-•°•-. flickr .-•°•-. gamertag •-.-•°•-.-•
.-•°•-.-• if (Kester.says("Zen! Get online")) { zen.status("online") } •-.-•°•-.
Androo
Archer
posted 08-17-05 17:25 EST (US)     24 / 41       
When I click on the page link for Wize1's shallow water video tutorial, the page opens, but the video doesn't play. All I get is a black box in the center of the page... Does anybody have any suggestions? I would love to find out how to make fords!
Kester
Seraph Emeritus
posted 08-17-05 18:39 EST (US)     25 / 41       
What browser are you using? I just tried it again with IE and it started. It was a black box for maybe 10 seconds first (on a fast connection).

.-•°•-.-• Kester •-.-•°•-.
•-.-•°•-.-• deviations .-•°•-. flickr .-•°•-. gamertag •-.-•°•-.-•
.-•°•-.-• if (Kester.says("Zen! Get online")) { zen.status("online") } •-.-•°•-.
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