25 - The Forgotten
Mission 25 - The Forgotten
Posted on 10/28/04 @ 12:00 AM (updated 11/17/04
4 opponents: The Rat “Duke de Puce”, The Snake “Duke Beauregard”, The Pig “Duke Truffe”, The Wolf “Duke Volpe”
2000 Gold for player, 4000 Gold for each opponent
It took me 30 game years to finish this mission and I absolutely won’t classify this scenario as difficult, but as tough and lengthy. There’s a river dividing the map up to two parts, where the player starts on the south-eastern banks.
The stone and iron resources are located in the middle of the map on a tiny rocky river-island and it’s really hard to mine there. Nevertheless, you have to get this important economic area under control directly from the beginning.
Erect 1 granary and two apple orchards north-west of your keep, 5 stockpile elements, 3 woodcutters, 1 marketplace, 1 armoury, barracks and 1 engineer’s guild. Buy in 85 stones and 20 bows. Primarily build up two square towers next to the northern ford leading to the central island. Connect these towers by walls and stairs. Besides, block off the southern ford by a thick wall. The left tower should be manned by a ballista, the right one by a mangonel. Recruit 20 archers ordering them on top of the towers. Then tear down one stair’s element, so that nobody will reach the towers’ garrisons. Your mangonel should aim at the Rat’s gatehouse and the hostile peasants leaving the castle for work. Your self-acting ballista and your archers will do their jobs well, because your centrally placed towers will guarantee many targets around, especially those iron and stone deposits nearby.
Now start to use these resources for yourself by erecting one quarry inclusively three ox tethers and one iron mine. Continue to raise your popularity by adding one inn, 1 brewery (buy hops!), 1 church (later 1 cathedral). On the military side, it is advisable to install five fletchers, one of them producing bows and crossbows by the others. Supplement two dairy farms on the northern oasis completed by two tanners (leather armours). Keep on building up your settlement as usual, however you will notice, that you’ll be short of gold in the course of time. Should the occasion arise, you ought to sell some apples and iron, even with regard to the dragging production of those goods. You’ll be dependent on stones for the next nears, useful to expand your influence by adding several new towers (no matter if square or round) on the other side of the river. Partially, place a few ballistas on top of the towers on this western front-line against the continuously attacking catapults of the Wolf. You should also erect trebuchets there, destroying both the Wolf’s trebuchets and his square towers (inclusively his pesky ballistas and mangonels on it).
Additionally try to occupy the island with some knights who have to destroy the opponent quarries several times. Beware of the hostile slaves who will try to burn down your farms and workshops. For that reason, be prepared by setting up a few wells. You will slowly improve your central position on the island systematically. I personally got the feeling of moving two steps forward and one step back. Mainly care about the Wolf’s trebuchets, which will permanently try to destroy your stone and iron industries. Concentrate on mustering crossbowmen and swordsmen for the offensive and the Rat will be your first and easier candidate to eliminate.
The rest of your adversaries are harder to eliminate, especially the Wolf and the Pig, because of their neighbouring castles protecting each other. The best concept will be an intensive siege-strategy:
Several catapults and fire ballistas will assist your advancing units (crossbowmen, macemen, pikemen, swordsmen, and knights) by weakening the hostile economic structures and workshops. Use many shields for your offensives.
You will surely be victorious, but in this mission, you’ll learn how to be patient.
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I am definitely not a pro at this game. However, I love playing it and doing things my own way, no matter how long it takes. For those of you who are in need of a different approach, then read on for a few suggestions. I found the lack of money a serious challenge. I tried the same approach as above, but it didn't work for me. I felt spending so much money in the very beginning a little too ambitious.
So, I started out with only 1 square tower planted between the Rat and his entrance to the rock and iron island. I put a mangonel on top and used it to keep pummeling away at him. Eventually he got down to about 14 troops, that's when I used the 10 or so macemen I had to take him out. I was struggling with making money at this point, so 10 macemen was all I could muster. I did have about 10 archers on top of my lonely tower and they did a good job.
To make money I started a hops farm as soon as possible to get my people happy so I could make taxes high. Everytime I had enough wood and money, I would add a new weapons smith until I had one of each. This included a poleturner that I set to make pikes instead. I did this because making pikes only required wood which I usually had plenty of, and they had a relatively high resale value. Making money on weapons makes more sense than selling the wood.
I made sure to have plenty of quarries in the beginning as well, since the Wolf became agressive with his trebuchets fairly soon and would take out my buildings on the island. It was frustrating since I couldn't seem to keep an iron mine on the island so I would just keep buying iron whenever I could afford it. I usually could keep one or two quarries going so I could have steady stone supplies.
I didn't build a church until I was making money steadily and had a comfortable sized army of about 10 swordsmen and 12 macemen. I made sure I put another square tower with a ballista and archers very near the Wolf's entrance to the island as soon as I had enough stone. This kept my buildings as safe as possible while preventing his workers from making any progress.
Another way I made more money was to build many wheat farms, more than I ever needed for making bread, and sold the extra wheat. It's not extremely profitable, but it kept my income steady when I needed it.
My order of attack was the Rat, the Snake, the Pig, and then the Wolf. The Pig seems like he should be second instead of third, but he was too close to the Wolf so I saved him for later. Besides, the Snake only had archers and spearmen, and had outer steps leading to a tower making it oh so easy to get to his keep! The best way to go at the Wolf seemed to be with mangonel-topped towers. I ignored his trebuchets and focused on the southeastern side of his castle.
It was a long game for me, but I enjoyed it. What a challenge!
Here is a small tip that helped me alot. when the Snake and the Rat have built up their keeps, place ox tethers next to their gatehouses. Make sure there are no troops outside their keeps. The rat wont attack you and the snake cant burn your crops. Their crops and everything else outside of their keep will crumble. They will run out of food and have low popularity. (note: doesnt work on pig or wolf.)
Here is what I did to win the map. I did it in 6 hours on the slowest speed (no idea how many game years that is - I play at the slowest speed, mainly because of my PC specs.)
Build EVERYTHING to the south of your keep. This is very important, as it saves you the necessity of building expensive towers. (Building to the south makes your keep (a small, invincible tower in itself)) the northernmost corner of the castle, which means that oncoming enemy troops can't hide between your other buildings.
Use your initial money to buy some bows (10 should be enough for now) and make archers, and to buy lots of wood planks. Sell the stone that is left over after building a barracks.
Now build fletchers - as many as you can. If I remember correctly, I built some eight or nine of them at this stage. At first, set half of them them to make bows, the rest to make crossbows.
Crossbows use three planks and gets you thirty gold each (so with the profit from selling two crossbows you can buy some 15 planks). My whole economy was crossbow based for almost half the game.
Soon now, the Rat will make the first attack. Since he only attacks with archers and spearmen, your archers make short work of his "army". By this time you have set all of your fletchers to producing crossbows.
All the time, keep in mind that you have to buy wheat every now and again so your people stay fed, you also have to keep an eye on the wood stocks. Running out of wood when your economy is based on the sale of crossbows is not a nice situation to be in.
Buy wheat and process it to bread because its slightly cheaper than buying bread outright. (Although, now that I consider it - there is something to be said for having four or five people extra that can make crossbows instead of saving that small amount of money. Also, if you buy already-processed food, you can buy some of all four types, which will boost popularity, which means the people won't mind half rations so much, which means you save a heck of a lot on food purchases... Yeah. Try that!)
Of course, in order for you to make crossbowmen (to take care of the pigs macemen), you have to buy leather armour (can't make the armour, because the Snake and the Rat keeps breaking down your farms).
Once you have one or two crossbowmen on the keep, you're ready for the pig. He might get one or two macemen inside your keep, but your lord and spearmen will sort them out in no time.
Keep building up your army with crossbowmen (remember to replenish the archers now and then if some die). Once you have a large enough army, take out the Rat, then the Snake. Things should now get much easier, as you will be able to build farms that stay built :). So you don't have to buy wheat (or pre-processed food) anymore. You can even consider building a quarry or even two (be careful how you place them, as the Wolf's mangonels and trebuchets can take them out if you place them wrong).
I took on the Wolf with a smattering of catapults (about 10), two battering rams, a whole bunch of swordsmen (about 60 or 70), some macemen (to set off the fire traps, spike pits etc) and a bunch of crossbowmen. Once you take the Wolf's castle, the pig is easy pickings (not least becuase the Wolf gives you a lot of money when he dies - I got some 11000 gold!).
Last note: At some point, you may consider building one or two round towers as close to the stone and iron resources as you can. Stock them up with a 50/50 mix of archers and crossbowmen (the archers shoot further and faster), so that you can stop all the other players from mining there. This will also give you control over most of the oasis area, which will mean that almost no-one (except you and the Wolf) can make food anymore...
With all due respect to Stratego (who is a genius), I simply couldn't make his strategy work. What DID work for me was to build two stone towers at the two closest fords, then fenced in the trees directly across the river (lowwall does the trick), which both prevents a maceman rush and protects the wood-harvesters (wood's about your only i8nitial resource). I kept building stone mines on the island--a row of lookout towers at the middle ford on my side kept both slaves and enemy stone-carriers under control. Slaves dug a moat all the way around my main area. You MUST keep your area enclosed, especially at those two fords, or you'll get a rush and be defeated. This was the only way I could seem to get traction to start building farms...once you do that
I've tried all the scenarios above. I haven't had much luck. I get as far as building a moat around my land but the Pig usually gets me with an siege equipment and macemen who fill in the moat and then attack. At that point I still haven't been able to get quarries going and I have have no money. Does this sound familiar? When the Pig attacks with siege eqiupment what condition are you in (anyone)? How did you defend against the Pig?
Now I tried storming the Pig. It worked. I blocked in two other opponents but by then I am so weak the forth guy gets me. There is no way to win this game.
i get as far as the first attack by the wolf and i cant defend against it. i'm more of a defensive player so i try to get my defenses up first. i just cant kill all of the wolf's men before my king dies! sound familiar to anyone?
dont know what to do so plz help
to answer your question pungaman build a sq. tower right next to the ford to the left of the keep. fill it with c-bowmen(15 is good) and put a ballista in it. that will take care of the pig's siege.
i tried to follow stratego's advice(you're a genius) but it did NOT work for me. so what i did was build a granary, stockpile elements, fletchers(bows to start out with) and 2 sq. towers. 1 next to stone and 1 to attack the rat.
after rat has about 10 army left send 10 macemen to kill him.
the snake proved harder but still easy send 25 swordsmen to kill him
the pig will be easy to kill send 50 swordsmen and have them attack the wall then kill the pig
the wolf was by far the hardest. i built 4 sq. towers on the other side of the river(next to each other). i had the bottom 3 with mangonels and the top with a ballista. arm all with 15-20 c-bowmen. attack his walls. then take horse archers(50ish) to take out his engineers(the ones with oil) and then send your main force in(50 swordsmen,25 pikemen) pikemen fill in the moat(just by the gate) and then send the rest in to kill the wolf.
Stratto's plan does NOT work. Not enough stone or time. The attacks are too fast to build what he suggests and there is not enough gold. I have cruised through 24 of these campaigns. For him to not call this one "difficult" is ludicrous. This is easily the hardest one yet. Here's what you do.
2) 2 stockpiles
6) 5 wood cutters
Here's your start. Make sure you game speed is reduced to at least 50 or lower. I played the first 24 squirmishes on the highest speed. They were pretty easy..a few tough ones but this one..CANNOT be played at the top speed. The computer is just too quick. OK now..the first thing to do is get ready for the attacks from the north. The snake and rat will come quick.
1) build a tower..the second smallest right in the middle of the grass north of your castle. BUT not too close to stone and iron area.
2) now buy 15 crossbows, 15 leather armour and 15 crossbowmen. Get them up in that tower bloody quick.
3) now they should stop any quick attacks. Next buy 5 bows and 5 archers. They go next in the tower..with a fire barrell so they shoot flames.
That will get those rotten arsonists heading for you granery. Archers shoot a little quicker and farther..add 5 more and the 3 you were given to start.
4) now you are almost out of gold and food. So put up farms everywhere. 2 apples, 2 dairy, and wheat wherever it fits..
5) your wood cutters will be barely keeping up. But use the wood next to make another hovel for labour. Now buy more wood and make fletcher shops..as many as you can as quick as you can. Your only income will be taxes..and crossbows. Make as many as you can..sell them for gold. Also make leather armour..don't sell..use for crossbowmen..more will soon be needed.
5) now a few enemy spearmen may make it up you tower..so smash the stairs so your 15 cross and archers ar safe.
6) NOW HERE'S THE TRICK..you should have the week enemies to the north under control...BUT soon the pig and the wolf will come knocking. They can only cross the river at 3 points..the fords (or rocky areas in the stream). One is right to the left of the keep..the next crossing is left of where your tower position should be near the iron and stone area..and the last is north west of your tower. Your crossbow men should be able to stop the early pig attacks, he only sends a few to start..but that won't last long. Macemen and pike men will soon destroy your undefended keep and granery. They will come in numbers. sooooo...
7) HERE'S THE TRICK..BUY A MERCENARY TENT..BUY 10 OR 15 SLAVES....DIG A U SHAPED MOAT AROUND THE CLOSEST TWO FORDS. THIS WILL FOREVER SHUT THEM DOWN. NOW THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN BE ATTACKED IS FROM THE FAR NORTH.
8) that's right moat your side of the fords and the wolf and pig stop attacking for a long time. This will allow you to make food, crossbows and sell them for gold. it may ake time..but by shutting of the crossings you now have it. The north attacks are weak and your bow filled towers can easily handle them.
9) now..sell crossbows for gold..buy stone for another tower..almost right next to your other one. load it up with crossbow men. as many as you can. you should have good food suply by now. if not..destroy any enemy farms in range of your towers and put yours there. Now double the rations and jack taxes to downright mean. or as high as you can before popularity starts dropping.
10) you should good wheat supply by now..sell some...get more gold..now buy a mill and 2 bread making huts.. that will help food..
11) by now all the close wood is gone..so destroy wood cutters huts..and relocate north of your orchards and wheat farms..there are more trees north and the wood cutters will defend against attacks. you will have to buy wood, because your using so much for crossbows..but wood is your only way to make money..crossbows are cheap to make but sell for 290 gold for 5..good deal for you..
12) now rather than make another tower..connect the two you have with a low wall..put more crossbow men on that wall..a small wall is cheaper than a another tower..now you are invincable from the north..
13) when you have enough gold from crossbow sales..buy a engineers guild. build fire ballistas..lots..as many and as quick as you can. build them east of yur keep. 10 should do. WHY YOU ASK? cause the pig will soon come for those towers with catapults..and knock em down from across the river..so..after you get 10 ballistas..move them to the edge of the river just where the grass starts northwest of the keep. that is where they can best destroy any catapults..don't build siege towers..too much stone..too easy to knock down..and not worth it yet...the ballista are cheaper and with 10..just as effective..stone is expesive and you need 40 to build one siege tower. The pig comes with 3 catapults at a time..a mangola can't keep up..he'll get the tower..
14) now another small tower right next to the second ford is needed. Fill it with crossbows..this will shoot any attack from wolf and pig. They will try to march men up the river to the northern most ford. But it you have 20 crossbows in a a third tower by the second ford..you should be able to knock out half his army..the other alf will get it from the other 2 towers..if you've done it right..you should kill all attacks before they hit your orchards..
15) all that is next is killing the enemies north..it will take time..but buy iron and make macemen huts..you should already have 2 or 3 leather huts...when you reach 40 mace men...make 15 crossbow men and head for the enemy to the northwest..he is the weakest..start by using the crossbow men to shoot at his archers in the closest tower..they may all die but they'll kill most of his archers..now get 10 macemen and start smashing his wall..once thru..send them to attack the lord..they won't make it..but will kill a lot of his guys..immediately follow with the remaning 30..they will finish the job..one guy GONE..you get 500 gold..now go back to the keep..the next guy to the north is much tougher..you need 60-80 macemen. he has moats and archers and spearmen..it will take a while to kill him..but use the same method..no siege weapons..just bash his walls...
15) now once the two weak guys are gone..put up more food farms..wheat, mostly..because extra flour can be sold for gold..which is always in short supply..that iron is expensive.and you need to keep buying wood.
16) now to beat the 2 tough guys you need that island with stone and iron..build more towers close to the river loaded with crossbowmen.. connect the towers with walls and load up the walls..soon the island will be totally unproductive cause you're shooting anything that moves..
17) now send some mace men to destroy the quarries and iron mines..but when you put your own there..wolf will destroy them with trebuches he has near his castle..so bring 15 cross bowmen on the island..put them near the rocks to shoot at the trebuche..meanwhile get 20 engineers on that island..make 10 ballista..roll them next to your archers..they will cripple the wolf. all his men come out of his castle from the gate nearest the island...10 ballistas will kill any amount of swordsmen he sends, the ones that do surivive will get it from the other 19 ballista and the crossbowmen..now you can start with mines and quarries..he'll try to rebuild trebuches..but he won't be able to..your ballistas will keep wrecking them..
from here you should be able to figure it out..you'll soon have gold from selling iron and stone..them build an army and go get em..pig first..wolf next..
[Edited on 03/06/06 @ 06:38 AM]
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