Back to HeavenGames Welcome to Stronghold Heaven
Welcome
Downloads Home
Review Guidelines
Main site
Forums
Code of Conduct
Search

Advanced Search
Stronghold: Invasions
Home
New Releases
New Reviews
New Comments
Top-Rated

Submit File
Browse Categories


Download File Post Review Post Comment

Oakbridge

Author File Description
Jayhawk
File Details
Map Size: 300x300 (Medium)
Difficulty: Hard
Oakbridge is a semi-historical scenario, set during the life and times of King Edward Longshanks and his campaign against Wales. It also contains my first bridge.

The village of Oakbridge sprung up around a toll bridge and grew from the trade it made in iron and weapons. It also guards one of the northern approaches into Wales.
Edward's desire for conquest however, needs stone for his castles and gold and swords for his troops. You are the one he's depending on to provide all three.

NOTE: Even though these games are labelled as Invasion maps, they concentrate at least as much, if not more on the Economic challenges. They were playtested and balanced for simultaneous development of the miltary and economic goals.

Tips:
- the green invasion marker may not be completely trustworthy
- keep the enemy on their side of the bridge and you should be safe, however you may need the resources on the other side
- beware of the local wildlife
- trees are not as plentiful as they seem
AuthorComments & Reviews   ( All | Comments Only | Reviews Only )
Lord_ako
Rating
4.0
Breakdown
Playability4.0
Balance5.0
Creativity2.0
Map Design5.0
Story/Instructions4.0
Once again a very nice map by Jayhawk, as we've all come to expect ;).
I played this map at hard difficulty setting right away, I needed to load 3 times.
You should know that I'm an expert at single player, so keep that in mind while reading this review.

Playability : I had good fun while playing this map, I liked the continues challenge it provides very much.
I started working on the economic goals right away. I was glad for this because of the repeating invasion at the end.
I also liked having to replace and find the ideal location for some of my buildings. Another nice thing are the longterm repercussions a lot of early choises or steps have.
Example: I used my horses to kill a seemingly small pack of wolves, they were infact much more and all my horses died. Because of this I later wasn't able to patrol my farmland against maces and such in an efficient way. I had to use the slow knights. Also if you build too much wood choppers you end up 'killing' ALL the trees.
The only thing that spoiled my fun a bit was that it played very much like other maps by Jay, particularly "Gwernach".
More on this under 'creativity'

Balance : A perfectly balanced map, both the economic and the military part, although the economy was the most challenging.This map will trick you, multiple times, and you have to stay alert at all times.

Creativity : I realise giving Jayhawk a 2 for creativity may seem VERY weird, but I'll try to explain.
This map is way too much alike his earlier ones. Especially because it's not a follow up, like a campaign.
One word : "Gwernach", play that map and then play this one and you'll see what I mean.
Some examples : You have a small unexpandable castle, with a hard to defend 'open' village next to it. The most efficient way to defend it is to have a small patrol party in it. Both have you fullfill economic goals while being under (repeating) invasions. They have limited and remote farmland and the rest is mid plain on average. If you want more similarities play them both.
Concluding : if this would have been his first scenario I would have given it a perfect 5, now it's time to think of something new and different in my opinion.

Map design : A very beatifull map, with nice eye-candy, for instance the bridge. A realistic and beautifull lanscape which is very well thought out. Very well strategic placement of the castle, signpost and resources.
As good as they get!

Story/instructions : A very nice story, loosely historical.
Clear and helpfull instructions.
The reason I don't rate it a 5 is because the story is basically similar to some of Jayhawks earlier scenario's and because I like non-historical stories better. This is because they tend to be very fun to read, you can often be 'sucked' in to them, and they often have a bit more humour, which I like.
This is ofcourse very subjective though.

Concluding : a very good an fun map to play, I would recommend it to everyone, just don't expect to get something new, it's basically a rework of some of his earlier maps.
Jayhawk
Staff
File Author
Ako, does that mean you're going to put creativity to 1 for the next siege map any one makes?

I mean, after all it's just more of "storm the castle, kill the lord"
Lord_ako No, I won't, mainly because as you say, Siege maps are pretty narrow in their possibilities.
Not so for invasion maps, these are without a doubt the most diverse maps. You can do almost anything you want with them. Make an economic scenario, a siege, a defend mission, or any combination of those.
This is about creativity, making something twice with basically small alterations I do not find creative.
Except when it's a campaign of some sort.
Like your SBF one.
Note that I have given you very high ratings in all other categories, because they deserved them in my opinion.
Jayhawk
Staff
File Author
Now all (or at least most) of my maps will have this particular 'flaw'
Both have you fullfill economic goals while being under (repeating) invasions.
Is that going to mean I'll never get more than 3 on creativity? Sure, both scenarios are based on a similar setup, but there's enough differences between the two.

Gwernach is wide open to attacks from various sides, Oakbridge is a funnel with all attacks coming from the same side.
Gwernach requires flexibility, Oakbridge a solid block.

As far as similar events go... there's not that many to choose from, are there?


Another thing I'm wondering, is if I'd uploaded it 4 weeks from know would you have remembered?

Concluding : if this would have been his first scenario I would have given it a perfect 5, now it's time to think of something new and different in my opinion

So are you going to rate Gwernach?
Lord_ako No I will not rate all your future maps lower than 3 for creativity just because they have economic AND military goals. This is a great way to make a map interesting in mu opinion. I just hope your future maps will be significantly different than your past ones.
And no, I will NOT review Gwernach, I do not review all the maps I play, and cerainly not if the reviews say basically everything I would, this goes for ratings as well.
Why do you even want me too, just to get a high rating for creativity, I think you already know I would rate it a 4 or 5.

To clarify even more why I feel the two maps are too similar I will sum up the similarities in Oakbridge and Gwernach:
MAPDESIGN
-In both maps you get a small castle which you can not expand or repair, except for the towers ofcourse.The castles are devided in two sections by an inner wall with a small gatehouse in it in both cases.
-Both maps have limited and remote farmland.
-In both maps the only efficient way to defend this farmland is by having a small but strong patrol stationed on it.
-In both maps you get one hops farm at the start, which you can not replace if destroyed.
-The same is true for apple farms, although In Gwernach you get one, while in Oakbridge two
-Both maps consist mainly out of mid plain, and have a small patch of sea at the edge.
-Both maps have both Iron an Boulders in them at fairly remote locations
-Both maps have a limited amount of trees.

SCENARIO
-Both maps have four invasions, the fourth one repeats untill you have met the economic victory conditions.
-Both let you gather a certain amount of gold, stone blocks and metal weapons, although Gwernach has some more conditions.
-Both use the tree fungus event to further limit wood supply.
-In both maps you will have to rely on wheat and cows mainly for food.
-Both let you reach economic and military goals.

There are more simularities, but they are not as strong, and insignificant, so I let them out.
I want to emphasize very strongly that I would not have minded if this amount of simularities would be about half as small.

Finally some quotes :
"Gwernach is wide open to attacks from various sides, Oakbridge is a funnel with all attacks coming from the same side."
This is not really true : Both castles have one side that will be attacked often, two sides that will be attacked sporadicaly, and one side that will not be attacked.

"As far as similar events go... there's not that many to choose from, are there?"
Do uou still think so after reading the above, particularly what I've pointed out under SCENARIO?

"Another thing I'm wondering, is if I'd uploaded it 4 weeks from know would you have remembered?"
I fail to see the relevance of this, you did upload it one week after Gwernach if I'm right.


Jayhawk
Staff
File Author
I fail to see the relevance of this, you did upload it one week after Gwernach if I'm right.

Well, the difference I see, is that if I'd uploaded it weeks later it would still have been as similar, but would you have noticed/remembered?
If you would not have remembered, you say (suggest) you would have rated it a 5 for creativity. ;)

Similarly if you'd have downloaded Oakridge first, you would have given it a 5 for creativity. However you downloaded Gwernach first.
And no, I will NOT review Gwernach, I do not review all the maps I play, and cerainly not if the reviews say basically everything I would, this goes for ratings as well.

If you would have downloaded Oabridge first, then Gwernach, would you have added a rating to Gwernach, lowering creativity as it's similar to Oakbridge?

Note: I'm not arguing for that 5 (though it would be nice ;)) but trying to establish precedent in how far maps should be compared.
I agree there's (many?) similarties, what I'm, unsure of, is how/if it should affect the rating.

I will check this with the AoK/EE Download Overseers and wil try not to be biased.



As for the similarities
Both maps have limited and remote farmland.
Layout of the farmland is different, causing different problems. Also Oakbridge has a lot more land to place dairy farms, i.e. all around the castle, where Gwernach has less space.
In both maps the only efficient way to defend this farmland is by having a small but strong patrol stationed on it.
False.
This is true in Gwernach, but not in Oakbridge, which can be defended at the bridge and the ford.
Both maps consist mainly out of mid plain, and have a small patch of sea at the edge.
I like the landscape :รพ
And I guess that's true for most of my maps, as that's one of the two ways I know how to prevent a player from over exploiting wheat.
Both use the tree fungus event to further limit wood supply
Do tell me of another way to limit wood access?
This is a serios question.
Putting it up for trade is not really limiting it as money's often easily made. Putting in a few trees, will easily be countered, by slow harvesting, and letting nature (tree regrowth) do the rest.
Both let you gather a certain amount of gold, stone blocks and metal weapons, although Gwernach has some more conditions.
But for very different reasons. The one for religious reasons, the other for secular ones.
Both let you reach economic and military goals.
Which you said was a good thing ;)
(And will be part of 9/10 of my maps).

Do uou still think so after reading the above, particularly what I've pointed out under SCENARIO?

Well, let's say there's more similarities than I remember, but still less than you suggest, or more accurate, less ones that are unavoidable to create a certain play balance.

Oh, just for the record.
I finished making Gwernach over a month ago, Oakbridge is somewhat newer. At first I wanted to upload Javielle before I uploaded Oakbridge, then decided not to.
I forgot there were that many similarities and am now seriously annoyed it gets down rated because of them...

* sighs *
Lord_ako Dear Jayhawk,

I understand, and can see clearly that you are annoyed by this :p.
I want you to know that it was never my intention to deliberately cause this, I wanted to stimulate you to think of something new.
You are probably right that I might had rated Oakbridge (or Gwernach) differently if they had been released further apart or in different order. What I meant to say was just that this is hypothetical.
I appreciate you are researching the review system to see what is and what isn't possible to say.
I am a bit surprised though this is just because 1/5 of the ratings scored low. :)
Finally, no hard feelings at all from me, I was just giving constructive criticism, or at least, that's what I tried.
I would not have rated Oakbridge high for creativity and Gwernach low if I had played them in reversed order. This is because in this case I rated creativity on release order, not play order, that would be silly.

ps On restricting wood and wheat supply :
-Wood CAN also be effectively limited by placing only a small amount of trees, just enough to get through the entire mission. If the player is not carefull and takes more than he needs it runs out before the end. This takes some very carefull balancing though.
-Wheat can also be restricted by giving the player a limited amount of farms/bakeries and or mills at the start and not allow them to build more.
Or by using the wheat decease event, but I assume that's what you meant by the other way.

It might be annoying that I keep saying this, and I do not mean to gloat, but the fact is: Try "The lighthouse v2" by me to see a working example for both alternatives on trees and wheat. I'm guessing that you didn't play it yet BTW.
Jayhawk
Staff
File Author
Nothing personal, ako, having this happen to one of my own scenarios just made me note it earlier ;)

And I will take them constructively, however, parts of it, you'll just have to consider part of my style of maps.
Yes, you will have to gather stuff
Yes, you will have to cross the whole map to get it.
Yes, you will have wheat pests and similar slowing you down.

If you want to use that against me so be it...

just enough to get through the entire mission

Unless you put a timer on this I can outwait any shortage.

giving the player a limited amount of farms/bakeries and or mills at the start and not allow them to build more

I like that idea, but it's going to make it impossible to use fire events, plus you run the risk of crippling a player for getting his mill destroyed.
Using this tactic puts a whole different empahsis on the scenario as opposed to the apple/hop fields in my scenarios, which while irreplaceable, never cripple your scenario.

I'd consider that much more annoying (lower balance) than using limited arable land (which you find repetative) which forces me to puzzle placement and balance whether to have more wheat or more hops (something I enjoy more).

Let's drop it at this (unless you want to answer any of the above :)
Lord_ako I feel like giving this a rest too, I just want to make one final statement.

Quote from Yayhawk :parts of it, you'll just have to consider part of my style of maps.
Yes, you will have to gather stuff
Yes, you will have to cross the whole map to get it.
Yes, you will have wheat pests and similar slowing you down.

If you want to use that against me so be it... " end quote.

I will MOST CERTAINLY not use that against you at all, I even like that very much about your maps. I even use those things myself most of the time.
To further clarify :
Quote from me : "I want to emphasize very strongly that I would not have minded if this amount of simularities would be about half as small." end quote.

Now about wheat farms bakeries and mills.
I would advice to only use this strategy with mills.
You are right about the fires, those are not possible when you use this strategy. But I think that doesn't really matter, because I noticed you don't use them (very often) in your scenarios.
Now about enemies destroying them: Very carefull placement is all that is needed, I have made two maps in which this works. In one of them the mill is very remote, it can only supply two bakeries, and is supplied by just one wheat farm.
The enemy does attack it, so you have to defend it well.

nitzer93
Rating
4.4
Breakdown
Playability5.0
Balance4.0
Creativity4.0
Map Design4.0
Story/Instructions5.0
Another outstanding map from Jayhawk! I found this map to be a pleasure to relax and play. I believe that it finds a nice balance of challenging goals and spead-out design.

Playability (5/5): I had numerous options as to how I wanted to approach the map. I was also limited from going over the top on defense or economic goals.

Balance (4/5): I found that the balance of food, defense, and iron mines were very nice. I had to be mindfull of wood resources - but that was sort of a spoiler due to the silly bickering about this map.

Creativity (4/5): Nice bridge! I found myself having to really search the map for the resources I needed while being careful not to exhaust them. Also, those of you who enjoy Jayhawk's map will find this to be as beautiful - if not more - then any of the others.

Map Design (4/5): Solid. My only comments (and the only reasons I don't give it a 5) is because I would have like to have been able to use oil for more then the single purpose of pitch ditches. Also, there is a very simple way to cause the attacks to be useless (no spoilers!), but that has more to do with AI predictability then anything else.

Story (5/5): It was nice to visualize the story line that used the bridge. It was also a nice surprise to find that the attacks didn't destroy the bridge because of the alternative route(s) to the castle.

Nice job Jayhawk!

Post Review Post Comment

HGDL v0.7.1

Login
Forum Username:


Password:




Create a new account
Forgot password?
Rating
4.2
Breakdown
Playability4.5
Balance4.5
Creativity3.0
Map Design4.5
Story/Instructions4.5
Statistics
Downloads:1,496
Favorites: [Who?]0
Size:536.50 KB
Added:03/01/02
New Files