Movie Based Helms Deep - Redux (Updated v2.2)
Posted on 11/26/03 @ 12:00 AM (updated 12/05/03
Map name : "Helm's Deep Redux"
Version : 2.2
Type : Siege
Game : Stronghold
Size : 400x400
Recommended Side of Play : Defender (only)
Map Difficulty : Hard (Balanced in v1.2)
Recommended Difficulty of Play : Easy or Normal ( Hard for Veterans )
NOTE : DON'T play on very hard, as it leads to Sprite overload and erratic AI behaviour.
This is my second Helm's Deep map. My first one was made while I was but a noob in the design community and wanted to play a good Helm's Deep map based on the movie, since I could'nt find any, I just made one myself. It made me learn a lot about the Stronghold editor and since then I have learned a lot more, and set out to make a more accurate representation of the Helms Deep map.
This map took a long time to make, primarily since I wanted to recreate the feel of the movie as accurately as humanly possible. Amongst the variety of Helm's Deep maps availble, very few can do that. When the AI finally worked one day, I almost cried with happiness! It attacks the wall in a surprisingily Orc-like way and is a very fun battle through and through.
To make the AI work, I had to pre-place certain enemy forces on the map, and they blend very well with the AI army. I also had to do quite a bit of scripting to achieve the feel of the siege of Helm's Deep.
As a result of all that work, Crossbowmen flank the archers on your walls from nearby cliffs, and macemen hide behind siege towers while destroying your walls!
A little back of the envelope calculation shows that the number of enemy units you will encounter throughout the course of a normal level game give or take a few hundred:
As you can see, it is a very intense map.
Although, the structure is very accurate, it is the fun factor that I have concentrated upon, and I hope it appeals to Non-Tolkien enthusiasts as well.
A big achievement for me was the addition of the Rohan Cavalry (Rohirrim) which charge out to help defend the deep after 15 game months (changed to 17 months in v2.1).
NOTE : Do not select the Cavalry before 17 months, or they might fail to charge out automatically, or worse, not come at all!
There are a few people who I would like to thank. Their names and contribution is mentioned in the credits.txt file in the zip. Thanks Guys!
Keep in mind that This is a Tough Map! It was made to recreate the ultimate challenge, that was Helm's Deep and requires good use of all your troops. For the faint-hearted, tips to beat this map are also included in Tips.txt within the zip file.
v1.1 Changes :
-New Pig Mid-Game Message.
-Harder Last Wave.
-Earlier Last Wave.
v1.2 Changes :
-Balance Issues addressed.
-You'll see a bit more of the pig, playing the part of the Orc Commander to perfection ;).
v2.0 Changes :
-Inner side of outer wall and Outer side of inner wall made indestructable. Vastly improves AI efficiency.
-Tougher Last Wave.
v2.1 Changes :
-Took care of a loophole which allows you to trick the AI... not anymore.
-Rohirrim now arrive after 17 months.
-Added tips.txt to zip file, help out beginners.
v2.2 Changes :
-New placement of Rohirrim, they arrive at same time though.
-Harder Last wave consisting of 50 swordsmen, 100 Pikemen and 300 Macemen !
Now, off to the fun part!
Check out my other Lord of the Rings related maps :
-Movie Lotr2 : Helms Deep
-Movie Lotr2 : Edoras
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|Author||Comments & Reviews ( All | Comments Only | Reviews Only )|
Before I make a start I would just like to say that this is probably the best siege map on stronghold heaven. it is unbelievable! You cannot praise the map enough. Playability - incredible, you can use many difficult strategies in the defence of the fortress. It is great having a line more of archers and pikemen behind the wall. This gives you flexibility in your defence. The AI is unbelievable. The siege towers rolling up to the Deeping Wall - simply surperb. The AI works so well in attacking the fortress. You must take the time to see the little details of how the crossbowmen take up their positions at the flanks of the army. So cool! The game is always close - depending on what strategy you decide to use. There is only one minor AI problem where some of their swordsmen always go down into the tunnel and take some time to get out. Moving on this is so creative and well designed. I havn't even come onto the way teh knights appear. There are locked in and take time to escape, although there is cheaty way of getting them out faster. It is brilliant when they come charging down towards the enemy - often they arrive only to just save Helms Deep. Helms Deep itself is wonderfully designed - some of the best and most creative castle design you will see. A gem to look at. The surrounding map design is also captivating - really good! A good stroyline - plently of notes and info about the map - love the picture on the site as well. So overall this is a top class map - one of the best, with superb playability and so well designed - incredibly detailed. So I will leave you with these words - You must play this map!
Posted on 12/05/03 @ 12:00 AM
Before I start, WOW! This is the most amazing helms deep map I have ever seen, maybe the best map of them all!
Posted on 12/06/03 @ 12:00 AM
Outdoes even my v2.0 by very very far!
Playability - 5
The "orcs" came to quickly and once they did come everyone on the deeping wall was killed of way to quickly. Otherwise, the overall sense of "lordoftheringsness" was amazing. The AI was flawless and it had an overall sense of being fast paced and more importantly, FUN!
Balance - 5
This was amazing, alot of thought must have been put into this. This came down to the last few men on the keep. Had it not been for the cavalry, I would have utterly lost.
Creativity - 5
You were so creative in creating a Helm's Deep based on the movie I can't even bring words to it. The Movie and the map are the same. I was amazed at how much like the real thing it looked. I really liked the way you used stone walls to prevent the coming of the cavalry until the battle was almost lost. AMAZING!
Map Design - 5
The map was so well laid out, the mountains, the paths for the crossbowmen, and the caves behind the keep and deeping wall are great. I won't even go into the castle, its just that good. To good to describe, exactly like the real thing.
Story/Instructions - 5
This was a good summary of the beginning of the battle, very descriptive. The only problem is that they were Galadhrim elves of Lorien, not Rivendell. Sets the mood for the great map ahead.
In summary, let me just say this:
Firefly should consider working with you in the case of Stronghold II. This map is flawless.
Keep up the great work!
How can one describe Talos's Helm's Deep Redux..............
Posted on 12/06/03 @ 12:00 AM
This map IS Helm's Deep. Their are many sites and many versions of this map. I have played most of them. None compare, not even this authors previous attempt, which is also good, come close.
Playability 5/5 perfect, This is incredible work. The Orukai (sp?) attack just like in the movie. Waves and waves of perfectly scripted attackers and messages from the scribe confront you. You cannot fail to marvel at how closely the action of the map follows that of the movie. Especially with the riders of Rohan coming to your rescue.This map is a jewel. You will get to experience The defense of Helm's Deep first hand.
Balance 5/5 In relation to the story. The balance is perfect. The defenders would quickly be slaughtered by the Oruk-Hai (sp?) if it were not for the Deepening wall and the Main Gate. Although not 10,000 Oruk-Hai's strong. You will be assaulted by no less than 1,000! As slowly happens in the story, you can draw your troops to the Keep at the start of the game for an easier time of it. However this would be like drinking fine champagne out of a paper cup. on one of my maps it would be deemed as dishonorable.
Creativity 5/5 I think what the downloader will first find is ascethetically, Talos has conjured this fortress better than any other author to date. The designer has painstakingly forced the Stronghold configuration to produce a Tolkien landscape. While utilizing some of the classic Stronghold eye candy tricks. Simply wonderful. How this author can translate Tolkien so naturally is beyond me.
Map Design 5/5 Not only is the Castle immediately recognizable but also the surrounding landscape shows as much love, attention and truthfullness to the story of LOTR. Talos's signature mountains naturally make their presence felt. This Master Designer of the Highest Order has also placed the people of the Exodus. on the fortress design itself, I cannot say enough about the Main Gate. It's appearence is truely something special. All of the design is remarkable but the main gate is simply phenomonal. If ever a map recreated the feel of Helm's Deep it is this one.
Story/Instructions 5/5 although the idea is not his but Tolkiens, Talos's spirited summary of the events leading to the pivotal battle are exemplary. The author has done a wonderful job setting the feel for the map. This is essential to enjoying a map to it's fullest IMO. Sorrowfully overlooked by the less experienced designer, Talos's has given this category almost as much attention as the map itself. Remember English is not the official language of India. one must take this factor into account and again commend the author for the clarity and convenyence of excitment contained in the writing.
In Short-Simply the best version of Helm's Deep you will find online. Even if you are not a Tolkien fan, this map will inspire and teach you how to really create a Stronghold Map. Helms Deep Redux is an essential download, Period.
UnikUnok and NAT say what I would say. This map is perfect and is by far the best seige I have ever played. Well done Talos! There is not a word to explain how awesome this map is!
Posted on 12/07/03 @ 12:00 AM
This is by far one of the best Helms Deep map I've played.
Posted on 01/07/04 @ 12:00 AM
It was very fun to play, it's also pretty hard, very creative as well. You also did a very good job on the story, it very accurately depicted Helms Deep. This map definately deserves a 5/5. Congragulations on a good map.
Before this reviews gets under way, I must stress from the very start that this is, without a shadow of a doubt, the finest map available for download at Stronghold Heaven. It's already clocked up five perfect 5.0 scores, and rightly so.
Posted on 01/20/04 @ 12:00 AM
I know that Talos has been working on this for what probably feels like a millenia to him. I'm also well aware of the constant editing and fine-tuning he's done. But when the map became available for download, launching the game and staring at Helm's Deep for the first time, it was one of the few occasions when I was left speechless. Once you've picked your jaw up off the floor and get down to the task in hand, you're in for a ride and a half! Everything, and I really do mean everything, works perfectly. Naturally, I read the author's comments in detail on how to approach the map, and respected his wishes. The scenario unfolds before you beautifully. The scale of the battle, the position of the attacking troops, their movement across the landscape... everything here works, blends together and makes the map head and shoulders above everything else. It's a tough siege. You'll be pushed to the limit. But I genuinely felt sheer joy and relief once the battle was over. This is a map that will keep me coming back for more. And more.
Design side apart, I feel that this is where Talos excels himself. The map is hard, no doubt about it, but beatable. That in itself makes for great balance, something that is tough but can be beaten. The armies that attack are nothing more than hell-bent on getting inside the keep and Talos has taken the occasionally erratic AI and worked with it to produce a wonderful battle sequence. I can't praise him enough here. Your defensive capabilities will be pushed and troop placement does, and will, make a difference. Wonderful work.
Anyone who suggests that copying an existing castle, whether it be historical or fictional, is uncreative is very, very misguided. It's hard work. You're having to use your imagination still, bearing in mind that the game will to some extent hold you back in what you can effectively design. I doubt there will be a better rendition of a fictional castle than this, for Helm's Deep lives and breathes within Stronghold! The recreation is exquisite. The feel of the map is strangely familiar to anyone who has read the books/seen the films. The recreation of the battle though is where the map really comes alive. Perfect.
Map Design: 5/5
Okay. I'm not a major Tolkien fan. I know very little of what lies within the books. I've seen the films and read 'The Hobbit'. But from what little I know, and it is limited, I have nothing but praise for Talos. To me, it's Helms Deep. The battle is Helm's Deep. The landscape reminds me of the film. That in itself deserves a 5.0 score.
On another level though, and looking at the map through Stronghold eyes, as I always do, the terrain is wonderfully modelled, atmospheric and dark. The fortress is a gem and takes on a formidable appearance. It's lovingly created within the limitations of the game. It's map design at it's very best. Sometimes a 5.0 score just isn't enough...
I've lost count of the number of times i've stressed in reviews how important a good story is. Instructions should really be mandatory too IMO. The story/instructions to accompany this map is more than enough to outline to someone like me, who's not absorbed in Tolkien's world, just what the author has tried to do, what should be borne in mind and the background to the map that is about to unfold. It's of the highest quality throughout, interesting, absorbing, gripping and a wonderful way to round off the submission here.
I'll say it again, this is the best map available for download here. Not just for Tolkien fans, or siege fanatics. It's a shining example of how taking your time, investing in research and reading and careful modelling can result in something special.
And it is something very special indeed.
It needs to be played to be believed. And when you do download and play, remember the work that must have gone into such a creation, and show some respect for Talos, one of the finest designers there is. Well done, my young friend :)
It's absolutly fantastic...One of the best maps ever...I loved it...I played like 5 times on it and i will play again...Respect for talos...
Posted on 01/21/04 @ 12:00 AM
Beautiful. Wonderful. Amazing. I've tried to think of something bad about this map. I failed to.
Posted on 01/21/04 @ 12:00 AM
Playability: This map is sheer, pure fun to play. It's amazing to start with; you're left feeling amazed at the size of the force being throw against you, with more and more coming all the time. Your situation looks impossible as seige towers and orcs (macemen) start advancing on the deeping wall. It totally sucks you in...and you're there, at Helm's Deep, making a noble stand for Rohan. It's so much fun to play-it grabs you and doesn't let go until you've won or lost. The way you worked with the AI to produce the troop movements and attack patterns is amazing-the notoriously stubbon AI performs amazingly. The flanking crossbowmen, the seige towers and orcs, and the swordsmen and rams charging the main gate...it's all fantastic, and it just feels like Helm's Deep, totally.
Balance: Amazing! It is so balanced, and the outcome stands upon a knife's edge. Desperately trying to hold off the enemy with your terribly outnumbered troops is amazing. The way you managed to come up with such a huge attacking army, and then give the player just bunch of archers and a few foots troops and have them win...it must have taken an incredible amount of playtesting and effort. The way the Rohirrim come just at the end to save the day and destroy the last invasion is wonderful-again, re-creating the feel of Helm's Deep wonderfully. It took a couple of tries for me to win, and it was well worth the effort. I jumped straight back in to play again! This is a classic.
Creativity: A wonderful rendition of the classic LotR battle, with excellent design and imagination throughout. You've taken Stronghold and pushed it right to the limit-and more! Great ideas are in place everywhere, and it's a joy to play.
Map Design: A very well realised Helm's Deep fortress dominates the map, with great design present upon it. Wonderful scenery surrounds the castle and it's all just great! Has to be seen-and played-to be believed.
Story/instructions: Great work here, too, on an often neglected portion of a map. It really gets you in the mood to play the map and sets the scene. And there's some tips for those that are finding it hard.
An instant classic, and the best Helm's Deep map I've ever played. Heck-it's the best map I've ever played, period. The finest that Stronghold has to offer is here. I can give no higher praise, and only wonder how I'll ever enjoy another seige again with this to compare it too. ;)
A marvelous effort! Very well done indeed.
this map looks so awesome does anybody know where i can download it because i have not brought the game yet,i have the original game and loads of downloads of crusader
Posted on 01/24/04 @ 12:00 AM
First I will have to say that this is the most boring map I played, I didnt like it at all, it was TO easy and the map design stinks!
Posted on 02/01/04 @ 12:00 AM
Ok, now for real:
Playability: Ow well, it was really fun, seeing all those men of saruman marching towards you and you slaughtering them, and of course vice versa. After my first victory (on easy of course, because I suck on harder levels) after my 2nd try, I immediately wanted to play it again. (I've also tryed to play it on very hard, and it was, uuuum, ... not fun).
Balance: Perfect, just perfect I end up with the Hornburg almost breeched when Gandalf finally arrives, it can not be describen by words, it's just too perfect.
Creativity: Well, the arrival of Gandalf, the Pig as the leader of the Uruk-Hai, the continious invasions, the ...... I could go on for ever, but it certainly deserves a 5 as score.
Map design: Very nice done of the deeping wall, the Hornburg, the caves (maybe this could be a little more worked out). And now I'm just going to say something stupid, but what I missed was a little stone wall in front of the castle where a few defenders stood that were overrun immediately, it stood in the book like that, and its the only thing I missed, but still a 5.
Story/Instructions: I missed the history of Helms Deep, but still the story makes you want to start, and that's what a story must do right?
Overall: The best siege map I've ever played and (sorry for the other map makers but they will have to agree with me) the best Helms Deep map EVER.
Keep it up man with maybe a map of Minas Tirith or Morannon?
P.S.: I will personally send all the Nazgûl to anyone who doesnt give this map a perfect 5!
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